young legs

Posted by: joyce taylor

young legs - 18/08/08 09:53 AM

hi guys, the trail is very soft (slight under statement) but there is a steady trail of hardy souls coming through. I thought I would post about a family that has just stayed with us(at Byrness) to give anyone who was worrying about doing it a bit more confidence.They were a family from Luxembourg with two little fellas of 11 & 13 called Garry & Kendy.They have walked it from Edale in one go,(and they were running around the garden after they got here last night), they are due to finish on Tuesday afternoon. congratulations boys.
Posted by: Lounge Lizard

Re: young legs - 18/08/08 10:31 AM

Originally Posted By: joyce taylor
hi guys, the trail is very soft (slight under statement) but there is a steady trail of hardy souls coming through. I thought I would post about a family that has just stayed with us(at Byrness) to give anyone who was worrying about doing it a bit more confidence.They were a family from Luxembourg with two little fellas of 11 & 13 called Garry & Kendy.They have walked it from Edale in one go,(and they were running around the garden after they got here last night), they are due to finish on Tuesday afternoon. congratulations boys.


Edale to Bryness in one day at that age - now that really is an achievement !
Posted by: joyce taylor

Re: young legs - 18/08/08 06:35 PM

funny bloke in one go as oppossed to doing it in stages i.e. over several weekends. However they didn`t look at all wrecked like the other 7 (older) pennine wayers who were here the same night.
Posted by: Robbie

Re: young legs - 18/08/08 07:32 PM

Joyce, just out of interest, how many people a week do you get coming through doing the Way?
Posted by: joyce taylor

Re: young legs - 18/08/08 10:57 PM

I have just counted and in the last 7 days 29 pennine wayers have stayed this is higher than usual for August because of the rain,as many campers are sick of the constant wet and they are taking the chance of one last comfy night in a bed before tackling the cheviot.May,June & early July then Sep & Oct are the normal busy times as people feel they will need to carry less water than doing it in the height of the summer?(what summer) Joyce Forest View
Posted by: Lounge Lizard

Re: young legs - 19/08/08 02:51 PM

Originally Posted By: joyce taylor
funny bloke in one go as oppossed to doing it in stages i.e. over several weekends. However they didn`t look at all wrecked like the other 7 (older) pennine wayers who were here the same night.

Joyce. Thanks for that clarification. How many days did the Luxemburgers spend walking the Pennine Way ?
Posted by: joyce taylor

Re: young legs - 20/08/08 12:48 AM

19 days with some rest days but I cant remember how many as there was two family groups and a couple of german guys all sitting chatting and comparing times and numbers of rest days.
A guy has come up today and he missed out Bellingham and is going straight through to Kirk yetholm tomorrow that is two very long days in a row but he is very fit. He runs 30 mile races!!
Posted by: Lounge Lizard

Re: young legs - 20/08/08 03:35 PM

Originally Posted By: joyce taylor
19 days with some rest days but I cant remember how many as there was two family groups and a couple of german guys all sitting chatting and comparing times and numbers of rest days.
A guy has come up today and he missed out Bellingham and is going straight through to Kirk yetholm tomorrow that is two very long days in a row but he is very fit. He runs 30 mile races!!

Joyce. While not wishing to belittle the Luxemburger's rambling, I think it's a sad reflection of today's society that walking thirteen miles a day is seen as such an achievement. In early Victorian times children would do that distance six days a week just to get to the mill for a twelve hour day, and that was on a diet of bread and dripping, but those urchins were probably healthier than today's couch potatoes who will only eat junk food and rarely walk more than thirteen yards a day. It's no wonder so many people are saying that the government should bring back National Service.
Posted by: joyce taylor

Re: young legs - 20/08/08 11:39 PM

You may have a point but the trail from bellingham up to us in the last 3 weeks has been thigh deep in mud for the adults,the little urchins were almost swimming in mud.With regard to child health now compared to bygone days you are most correct there is nothing like a bit of plague,pestilence and ringworm for improving the fitness of the young.
Personally I prefer to aplaud youngsters who do something which requires effort.
Posted by: Lounge Lizard

Re: young legs - 21/08/08 06:28 PM

Originally Posted By: joyce taylor
You may have a point but the trail from bellingham up to us in the last 3 weeks has been thigh deep in mud for the adults,the little urchins were almost swimming in mud.With regard to child health now compared to bygone days you are most correct there is nothing like a bit of plague,pestilence and ringworm for improving the fitness of the young.
Personally I prefer to aplaud youngsters who do something which requires effort.

Joyce, While I can't share your enthusiasm for 'plague, pestilence and ringworm' it has to be admitted that when such conditione were rife you never heard people moaning about the elderly being a burden on society nor were there any massive pension fund deficits. It is indeed rare now to see youngsters doing much constructive that requires effort.
Posted by: Harland

Re: young legs - 21/08/08 08:27 PM

Joyce, don't bother to respond. It isn't worth it.
Posted by: Nick Mac

Re: young legs - 21/08/08 10:07 PM

Joyce may not bother but I will.

LL as you are someone who has no idea what the stages are like on the PW, but still feel the need to belittle the efforts of those who make the effort, I feel it's time you gave the PW a go!

For those youngsters still to be running around after 250 miles of walking over the watershed of England, in lets face it bloody atraucas weather, over 19 days is some achievement.

As for the comments about the youth of today, they may be a waste of space in Staffordshire, but just look at what is happening over in China.

If it was just left to grumpy sarcastic old men like yourself the world would be a sad old place. Instead of bringing down the youth of today why don't you try praising their efforts, encouraging, because I can asure your negativity only breeds negativity (and contempt for those who inflict it).

Nick Mac
Posted by: Nick Mac

Re: young legs - 21/08/08 10:11 PM

PS before you start with the sarcasm I know I can't spell!
Posted by: Lounge Lizard

Re: young legs - 22/08/08 05:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Nick Mac
Joyce may not bother but I will.

LL as you are someone who has no idea what the stages are like on the PW, but still feel the need to belittle the efforts of those who make the effort, I feel it's time you gave the PW a go!

For those youngsters still to be running around after 250 miles of walking over the watershed of England, in lets face it bloody atraucas weather, over 19 days is some achievement.

As for the comments about the youth of today, they may be a waste of space in Staffordshire, but just look at what is happening over in China.

If it was just left to grumpy sarcastic old men like yourself the world would be a sad old place. Instead of bringing down the youth of today why don't you try praising their efforts, encouraging, because I can asure your negativity only breeds negativity (and contempt for those who inflict it).

Nick Mac


Mac. If you choose to interpret my comments as belittleing the efforts of those who make an effort then so be it.
Posted by: Bliss 60

Re: young legs - 22/08/08 06:54 AM

Ahhh - those halcyon dickensian days! Young people happily descending down pit for an exciting and fulfilling 12 hour day! Elderly people ruminating on the joys of life down workhouse! Industrialists wonderfully unfettered and building our wonderful climate change and ozone depleted culture! And of course if you were really stuck for something to do - you could always join the army and wipe out another country's indigenous culture. And if you didn't quite fit - there was always the splendours of the debtors prison or the hangman's noose! Yippee! The land where the sun never set and everything was either black or white.
Posted by: Lounge Lizard

Re: young legs - 22/08/08 09:38 PM

Originally Posted By: sea shore sam
oh dear as I have been away I have not been keeping up with whats been happening, and you really do walk into trouble LL all the time just by your silly comments. You really should think who you might be hurting before posting rude remarks.

Come on how old are you now? 5 or 55


Neither 5 nor 55 but 53, which is over three-quarters of the way towards my 'three score years and ten'.
Posted by: Lounge Lizard

Re: young legs - 23/08/08 04:25 PM

Originally Posted By: sea shore sam

Sounds like your talking about YOUR childhood! you or your ancestors must have struggled a lot otherwise you would not be talking so passionately about the kids of today and what they don't do.

Stop living in the past and start living for the present and future. Oh and stop boasting about how many miles youve walked because every human being is different.


I may have stated how far I sometimes walk, which is further than some people and less than others, but I would never boast about such things.
Posted by: tonyk

Re: young legs - 23/08/08 09:31 PM

Lounge Lizard wrote
Quote:
While not wishing to belittle the Luxemburger's rambling, I think it's a sad reflection of today's society that walking thirteen miles a day is seen as such an achievement. In early Victorian times children would do that distance six days a week just to get to the mill for a twelve hour day, and that was on a diet of bread and dripping, but those urchins were probably healthier than today's couch potatoes who will only eat junk food and rarely walk more than thirteen yards a day. It's no wonder so many people are saying that the government should bring back National Service



I don't know where you get you information from LL but most Victorian factories and mills were at the end of the street where people lived.A mill owner wouldn't want his workforce to turn up exhausted after a seven mile walk.I live in Leicester and maps of the city in 1875 show the city boundary to be around one and a half miles from the city center so no urchin could have walked seven miles to work unless his factory was located in the middle of nowhere.People who lived in villages tended to work on the land rather than in mills.Pensioners as such didn't exist in those days as most people died long before they reached the age of 65.The modern diet is far more healthy but the main problem is that people eat far more than their body needs.

National Service? Great idea.Why not send them to Christmas island and give them all a good dose of A-bomb raditation? I am sure it would improve their health.
Posted by: Lounge Lizard

Re: young legs - 24/08/08 07:40 AM

Originally Posted By: tonyk
Lounge Lizard wrote
Quote:
While not wishing to belittle the Luxemburger's rambling, I think it's a sad reflection of today's society that walking thirteen miles a day is seen as such an achievement. In early Victorian times children would do that distance six days a week just to get to the mill for a twelve hour day, and that was on a diet of bread and dripping, but those urchins were probably healthier than today's couch potatoes who will only eat junk food and rarely walk more than thirteen yards a day. It's no wonder so many people are saying that the government should bring back National Service



I don't know where you get you information from LL but most Victorian factories and mills were at the end of the street where people lived.A mill owner wouldn't want his workforce to turn up exhausted after a seven mile walk.I live in Leicester and maps of the city in 1875 show the city boundary to be around one and a half miles from the city center so no urchin could have walked seven miles to work unless his factory was located in the middle of nowhere.People who lived in villages tended to work on the land rather than in mills.Pensioners as such didn't exist in those days as most people died long before they reached the age of 65.The modern diet is far more healthy but the main problem is that people eat far more than their body needs.

National Service? Great idea.Why not send them to Christmas island and give them all a good dose of A-bomb raditation? I am sure it would improve their health.


Tonky, History wasn't my strongest subject at school so I'm sure everyone will be grateful to you for putting me straight on any such factual innacuracies.
I doubt if anyone would disagree with Joyce's original post here, but it emphasised how rare it is for youngsters to do a decent walk, and my reply about the 99% of British children who haven't walked the Pennibe Way this year has given a better debate on the subject than if I had just posted another yes-didn't-they-do-well type message.
Posted by: Nick Mac

Re: young legs - 24/08/08 09:39 AM

LL, yes you have initiated a debate, but i don't for one moment believe you meant to do it.

Yes 99% of children don't walk the PW, but what about all the others who do good things in the community.

I don't think it's rare for youngster to do a good walk, as I often see groups of teenagers out for the day, and I lost count of the teenagers walking Hadrian's Wall (it may be they walk something that catches the imagination, not something that will overstretch them).

Whilst the headlines are all about doom and gloom, shootings/stabbings, the vast majority of our youth are fine upstanding kids who work a lot harder than we ever did (exams may or may not be easier, but the headlines take away from all the effort put in).

Groups like the scout/guide association are overflowing, with membership at it's highest since the early 70's, which bodes well for the future of outdoor activities.

On the subject of factories and a walk to work, have you heard of Saltaire, built by Sir Titus Salt? Some of the churches, and public halls are outstanding, added to the housing he built for is workers meant he had a captive workforce (no seven mile walk to work (but no pubs due to his temperance beliefs)).

All the best

nick mac
Posted by: joyce taylor

Re: young legs - 24/08/08 01:04 PM

Again I am going to cast doubt onto your opinion of `the youth of today` young people doing the pennine way is not very unusual at all during august there has been a fair number of young people (14-21) coming through. Some of the late teenagers are walking in groups of their peers, others in mixed groups or family parties but the nicest of all and probably the most common is the Dads & Lads. Fathers and sons who are completing the challenge together and sharing a difficuilt but rewarding experience before the youngster flies the nest.That may be a sentimental take on life but I feel priveliged to be able to share one evening of their journey. Joyce Forest View
Posted by: Harland

Re: young legs - 24/08/08 04:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Lounge Lizard
[/quote]
Joyce, While I can't share your enthusiasm for 'plague, pestilence and ringworm' it has to be admitted that when such conditions were rife you never heard people moaning about the elderly being a burden on society nor were there any massive pension fund deficits. It is indeed rare now to see youngsters doing much constructive that requires effort.


I believe that most children, I appreciate not all, are a reflection on how they have been brought up at home. There is, in my opinion, a vast majority of level headed youngsters who have a passionate belief in the environment if you care to look. If they haven't had the opportunity to go out walking in the country, or even seen it, it may not be the first thing they think of. The scout movement was instrumental in my interest but what may have happened if I hadn't been given that opportunity? Even if youngsters are keen to go walking/camping parents, having seen so much about the nasty things that happen nowadays, understandably may not allow them. Other factors e.g. education seem far more important than in my days at school although I do accept that it does depend upon the parents, some of whom are clearly not capable of giving them any leadership.

The pension fund deficits you mention are not helped when trade unions fight to the point of striking so that future, not current, employees maintain this very significant benefit. For example the Post Office has to show a 5 billion deficit on the fund on its balance sheet which is being partly funded by the tax payer. The government had to agree a staggering 4 billion package of financial support for the business. Despite this the Communications Workers Union called a strike over pay, if it were a "normal" company it would have been liquidated years ago and the employees had their contracts terminated and then they would be able to see how it is to live on a low wage/benefits! However you will know this being a postman.
Posted by: Lounge Lizard

Re: young legs - 24/08/08 05:57 PM

Mac,
I'm not one to dwell on headlines about shootings and stabbings, mainly because I don't take a daily paper. The current interest in the Scouts is encouraging although it's a shame that volunteers can be reluctant to step forward for fear of being
branded paedophiles, just as men now account for just 1% of primary school teachers and generations are being divided by men fearing just talking to children.

Joyce,
Contrary to what was implied in your earlier post, it's encouraging that it's not very unusual for a fair number of youngsters to do the Pennine Way. A sad sign of the times though is that younger teenagers won't go off in groups for a few days together, whether through no longer being considered responsible enough or through misguided fears about their safety, such that
so many of them now leave school without having had much experience of any sort of responsibility.

Harland,
I couldn't agree more about it being about how the youngsters are brought up.
Not that Royal Mail has much relevance to yougsters on the Pennine Way but I think you would expect me to respond to the points you raise. I am relatively new to the Royal Mail. having just worked for them for fifteen months. Given that Royal Mail
lead the world at one time with postal mechanisation, it's sad to witness what has happened over the years, the CWU at one time opposing new technology such as optical character recognition, Thatcher creaming off vast profits during the 1980s and a severe lack of investment from that time onwards. I agree that unions should protect current, rather than future, employees but the strikes last autumn were about conditions, not pay. Outdated, inefficient working practices are being eliminated now and my experience is that the average postman works a lot harder than the average Civil Servant or local government employee. I enjoy the job but it's not one anybody could do and I've seen quite a few leave within their first few days because they're not up to carrying pouches weighing up to 35lbs for up to six hours a day. We do though get the mail through in all weathers, and I was surprised to see the RAF cancel a big air show recently because of a poor weather forecast.
Posted by: Harland

Re: young legs - 24/08/08 08:03 PM

That will teach me to believe what was recorded in a national daily paper:-

"Postal workers across the UK walked out on strike at noon, crippling mail deliveries until next week in an escalation of a bitter dispute over pay, jobs and pensions. "
Posted by: Lounge Lizard

Re: young legs - 25/08/08 07:52 AM

Originally Posted By: Harland
That will teach me to believe what was recorded in a national daily paper:-

"Postal workers across the UK walked out on strike at noon, crippling mail deliveries until next week in an escalation of a bitter dispute over pay, jobs and pensions. "


You're very naive if you take as fact everything you read in some of the rags that now pretend to be newspapers. It was primarily about conditions, also about preserving jobs and conditions and very little about pay. If that pay offer had been made without the attached clauses about conditions and pensions then there would have been no question of strikes.
Posted by: Harland

Re: young legs - 25/08/08 10:31 AM

Originally Posted By: Lounge Lizard
Originally Posted By: Harland
That will teach me to believe what was recorded in a national daily paper:-

"Postal workers across the UK walked out on strike at noon, crippling mail deliveries until next week in an escalation of a bitter dispute over pay, jobs and pensions. "


You're very naive if you take as fact everything you read in some of the rags that now pretend to be newspapers. It was primarily about conditions, also about preserving jobs and conditions and very little about pay. If that pay offer had been made without the attached clauses about conditions and pensions then there would have been no question of strikes.


So it was about pay, jobs and pensions then. I guess that I shouldn't continue this in future as it has nothing to do with walking and must be boring to lots of you - sorry!
Posted by: Lounge Lizard

Re: young legs - 25/08/08 10:48 AM

Originally Posted By: Harland
Originally Posted By: Lounge Lizard
Originally Posted By: Harland
That will teach me to believe what was recorded in a national daily paper:-

"Postal workers across the UK walked out on strike at noon, crippling mail deliveries until next week in an escalation of a bitter dispute over pay, jobs and pensions. "


You're very naive if you take as fact everything you read in some of the rags that now pretend to be newspapers. It was primarily about conditions, also about preserving jobs and conditions and very little about pay. If that pay offer had been made without the attached clauses about conditions and pensions then there would have been no question of strikes.


So it was about pay, jobs and pensions then. I guess that I shouldn't continue this in future as it has nothing to do with walking and must be boring to lots of you - sorry!


As a final comment then, they didn't "walk out at noon" as those working then finished their delivery not going in the next day, and mail deliveries weren't completely "crippled" as a significant minority of postal workers didn't join the strike and managers did some deliveries too.
Posted by: Nick Mac

Re: young legs - 25/08/08 12:06 PM

LL there were no winners when it came to the strike.

As you will be aware most offices are now doing all the went out on strike against.

The walk out at noon comment probably refers to those who's shift began at noon, as I had night staff who had to work alongside those who came into work and were then on strike the following day (complicated I know).

Please please do not forget the long term damage the strike has caused to Royal Mail as a whole.

Nick Mac
Posted by: Nick Mac

Re: young legs - 25/08/08 12:08 PM

LL there were no winners when it came to the strike.

As you will be aware most offices are now doing all they went out on strike against.

The walk out at noon comment probably refers to those who's shift began at noon, as I had night staff who had to work alongside those who came into work at 5am and were then on strike the following day (complicated I know).

Please please do not forget the long term damage the strike has caused to Royal Mail as a whole.

Nick Mac
Posted by: Lounge Lizard

Re: young legs - 25/08/08 02:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Nick Mac
LL there were no winners when it came to the strike.

As you will be aware most offices are now doing all they went out on strike against.

The walk out at noon comment probably refers to those who's shift began at noon, as I had night staff who had to work alongside those who came into work at 5am and were then on strike the following day (complicated I know).

Please please do not forget the long term damage the strike has caused to Royal Mail as a whole.

Nick Mac


Mac, I tend to agree with you, but you didn't need to make the point twice !
Strike or not, 'modernisation' is happening, Sunday collections have gone, deliveries are later, Saturday deliveries will go, Post Offices are closing, Parcelforce will be privatised first, then the letters business not long after.