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#57982 - 31/08/10 02:57 PM Re: Osmotherly Car Parking? [Re: flatlands]
Slogger Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Cheating? In many peoples mind, maybe. Would it be in yours, that's what matters.
For me in my mind it would be a failure on my part, but to others it may be acceptable and that's okay, nothing wrong in that.
You have to make up your own mind what you are happy with and stick with your decision.
You will feel you cheated or failed if you decide to stay on a route all the way, but end up deciding part way, to take an easier alternative. So stay with what you planned at the start.
I think people can only be seen as cheating if they make out they have done something they haven't, or omit to mention the alternative they took.
Dave.

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#57985 - 31/08/10 03:27 PM Re: Osmotherly Car Parking? [Re: Slogger]
flatlands Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 496
Although I'm back-packing the Coast to Coast shortly next month, I may use the Sherpa Van to take my rucksac to some of the hostels I've booked up and carry a cheap pound shop foldaway rucsac. I always thought people who had their gear carried by the van was sort of cheating in my view, but beginning to think it's good thing going. I always wondered why some coast to coaster's were happy and jolly in the pub.

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#57986 - 31/08/10 04:11 PM Re: Osmotherly Car Parking? [Re: flatlands]
walkanddrink Offline
Full Member

Registered: 19/06/10
Posts: 119
Loc: Blackpool
Flatlands

I had my heavy kit transported each day, my objective was to complete the walk and happily I did. I did see lots of people struggle who were trying to carry everything with them and for me that would have ruined my walk and yes I was happy in the pub on a night time!!

Mick

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#57988 - 31/08/10 06:24 PM Re: Osmotherly Car Parking? [Re: walkanddrink]
Slogger Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
I have not reached the stage where I would use such services and am happy carrying my gear, AND also happy in the pub.
These carrier services have made doing an LDP possible for lots of people who otherwise would not be able to, or even think about doing them.
Those that do use them are not cheating, they are just doing the walk in a different way to the backpacker or B&B'er carrying their gear.
I wouldn't worry about what anyone else may thinks or how others are doing it, do it your way.
In a competitive scenario, comparisons can only be made when all the parameters are the same - route, accommodation, walk all or run some, etc.
Dave.

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#57991 - 31/08/10 07:57 PM Re: Osmotherly Car Parking? [Re: Slogger]
tim smith Offline
Full Member

Registered: 28/10/06
Posts: 1054
Loc: england



JUST ENJOY THE WALK OR WHAT EVER WAY YOU DECIDE TO COVER
THE DISTANCE
_________________________
ern

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#57998 - 31/08/10 11:32 PM Re: Osmotherly Car Parking? [Re: First_timer]
lightweightmick Offline
Full Member

Registered: 18/11/04
Posts: 1695
Loc: North Derbyshire UK
I've only ever had the Footprint and O/S maps...
Just for the record, I'm not keen on using road sections as short cuts as I don't think they present an 'ethical line', however I have developed some alternatives and detail as follows:

1) From the slipway I bear right in front of the Bay Hotel - after about 50yds there is a gap to the sea wall, which leads via some steps to a nice bit of 'parkland' where the path comes to the mini roundabout.

2)At 2m I take the path up at Rain Dale to the former railway trackbed (as I don't like the route that comes up through the caravan park) this is a little shorter by about 1/2m. However I wouldn't consider this and 'ethical' finish for some reason...

3) On all previous occasions I've snuck up Hawsker Intake road only to get soaked at the top - this time I stayed on the road to the T junction and joined the track that leads to the Graystone Crossing (to miss this would be unethical in my book)

4) May Beck woods should be included - my preferred line is the footpath from opposite the end of Raikes Lane to the bend in the road at New May Beck then L down the road.

5) Black Brow should be included from the Blue Bank road to where it comes out near the quarry track above the cattle grid (or, more correctly the ROW to the W of the quarry). I've always included this - even in thick mist - though I think it's probably easier to follow this when going E-W - I came out a tad farther up the road this time and include a note on the video diary as to where it comes out. It's interesting to note that Mike Hartley could find no trace of a path here on his record run (or his recce for same)

6)From the head of Great Fryup Dale I use George Gap Causeway and cut across the head of Rosedale to pick up the trackbed at the back of the Lion Inn - a more interesting line (and one I got wrong on this last attempt) that avoids quite a bit of road walking, but the descent/ascent into and out of the dale balances out any distance saved. From Dale Head the Lion Inn can be included if desired as I did on last year's attempt via Overend Fm.

7)E-W the most ethical approach to Lord Stones is via all 3 climbs... Hasty, Cold Moor and Cringle, but I've only included all 3 in the recce as this comes tough at the end of a long day... this year I included the 1st 2 and missed Lord Stones by 10 mins...

8) There is a perfectly good ROW that drops steeply down into Arnecliffe Wood from GR466002. This avoids the summit of Beacon Hill and the dogleg past the radio mast station - good for me this time as I needed to get down to the Blue Bell before 9:30pm! Unfortunatley forestry work in progress made this difficult to follow... but I made it to the bar for 9:10 - had I taken the established route I doubt whether I'd have got a meal that night.

9) On my 1st attempt in 2006 I took the Lovesome Hill route - this wasn't clear on the ground - since then I've followed the more popular line from Oaktree Hill. The footpath line has been reinstated from GR355986 to 351986, which was a pleasant surprise...

10) this time, a 1st, after Danby Wiske, I picked up the footpath behind West Farm to Streetlam - better as it breaks the road section up a bit.

11) On 1st attempt I used the road from Kiplin Hall to Brompton-on-Swale and next morning to Richmond - this was due to torrential rain - not an ethical line... since used Hodber Hill and Bolton Beck, Catterick Bridge - StGiles - the established route. It would be a shame to miss the Swale at Iron Banks...

12) It would be tempting for runners to use the road from Marske and continue up Hard Stiles. The wind always seems to be fresh here across to Marske Hall. But to miss Ellers and the Nuns Steps would be unethical I feel. Though my route now skirts Marrick... even though there are some pesky little critters at Helmsley Hse!

13) I don't know what it is but the section of moor from the top of Skelgate Lane to Cringley Bottom does my head in... maybe because it comes at the end of a long day for me on a 5 day schedule. I got it wrong in fading light on the recce, staying on a track to the back of Moorcock only to think I might get too far up onto the moor and bottled it once again in fading light to Thirns... argh!

13) I've only used the high level route, but don't like the Bunton Hush descent, preferring to drop more directly to the smelt mill and slab footbridge a little farther on.

14) Most Coasters use the track to Ravenseat - I came unstuck trying to keep to the footpath this time only to find the stile completely blocked off..! So much for 'ethical line'... (though Footprint do have the track route highlighted) the blocked stile is around mile mark 91.

15) My preferred route is by the shooting cabin and Colbergh Side. I don't think it's that bad up there that anyone should need to use the road personally, though I may have been lucky to date...

16) Ronald Turnbull suggests a better route on descending Hartley Fell - on reaching the road take a footpath left to skirt Birkett Hill and Ewebank Scar - this comes out across the field near Frank's Bridge, though I've used the road to date, this route would certainly be an improvement going either way.

17) Having used the Severals, Ewefell, Mazon Wath, Acres route I've settled for the Brownber/Ravenstonedale Moor alternative as used by some Coasters using Bents Fm. I've worked out there is no more road walking involved, though it does all come at the end through Raisebeck to Orton, though it is largely downhill.

18) Bullflat route out of Orton to the dry valley that drops to Robin Hood's Grave has been used so far, but, as last two crossings have been in fading light, I've picked up a track before the RHG cairn that commands a view over the correct line. There is a thin track that cuts across to rejoin the main route. Where the landrover track extends to I'm not sure, but to leave out the erratic boulder and summit of Crosby Ravensworth Fell could be considered unethical..? But then there's the Black Dub monument...

19) On last year's recce, as it got dark on the top, I used the road from Oddendale out past Scar Plantation on the assumption that my support driver would be on her way up to meet me (time was getting on...) She was in fact downing a nice cold lager in the Bulls Head and I limped almost to the M6 bridge before those dim headlights came into view... The ethical line is past the Nab and those pesky ponies... and is what I followed early doors (though not as early as should have been...) this time

20) Another variation for me (taken last attempt and recce) is to follow field footpaths more directly to Rosgill... not much in it though.

21) Haweswater can be a slog, so for the 2nd time I've used the Measand End - High Raise alternative that rejoins the established route at Rampsgill Head. After wading through chest high bracken this time though, the rest of the climb turned into a slog also - again not much in it from the Kidsty Howes route. Kidsty Pike can be included from this route though if desired.

22) I've tried the Dunmail Raise/Steel Fell alternative, which appears to be shorter on the map... but wouldn't recommend it going W-E. This time I descended on the Tongue Gill path...

23) If using Stonethwaite as I did on the recce, turning left on the road, delivers a short path right that rejoins the route up to Honister. This avoids both Rosthwaite and Seatoller but misses the chain hand-hold section by the river.

24) Personal choice rather than ethical line, but as Wainwright's up there, Haystacks has to be a better choice than Loft Beck..? unless you're using Black Sail of course, but the alt. route has a choice of 2 bothies...

25) If using the Haystacks alt. you'll want the footpath that cuts diagonally across the hillside from/to Scarth Gap.

26) The S shore path is better than the N shore path though harder work. 1st attempt I kept to the road to Ennerdale bridge...

27) ...and used the Flat fell alternative as highlighted on the Footprint map. On the recce I took the Dent Fell route - stiff little killer on tired legs from Nannycatch but well worth it.

28) I don't think it makes any difference whether the cycle track is used or not...

29) ...but it takes discipline to turn right off the lighthouse road and head for the old quarry and Saltom Bay, but Wainwright wanted to add just that extra bit of misery for anyone foolish enough to attempt an E-W crossing...
there are only 3 possible 'ethical' escape routes for the injured (though definitely not the B5345!)

a) continue to the radio mast and turn right
b) continue up to Tarnflatt and the lighthouse
c) take a left and make for Fleswick Bay

(all include St Bees Head finish)

If reduced to a crawl on all fours, only then is it permissable to head down the road from Sandwith to Rottington to find the short footpath to the 'official' finish.
_________________________
St Bees or Bust!
A Walk in the Park...s

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#58036 - 02/09/10 09:55 PM Re: Osmotherly Car Parking? [Re: flatlands]
Itsalongway Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 27
Originally Posted By: flatlands
Although I'm back-packing the Coast to Coast shortly next month, I may use the Sherpa Van to take my rucksac to some of the hostels I've booked up and carry a cheap pound shop foldaway rucsac. I always thought people who had their gear carried by the van was sort of cheating in my view, but beginning to think it's good thing going. I always wondered why some coast to coaster's were happy and jolly in the pub.


For me, it was about enjoying it, not enduring it. That's why we had our bags carried.

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#58047 - 03/09/10 02:15 PM Re: Osmotherly Car Parking? [Re: Itsalongway]
lightweightmick Offline
Full Member

Registered: 18/11/04
Posts: 1695
Loc: North Derbyshire UK
On the last night this year I set up at Grisedale Tarn next to a guy who's wife had been diagnosed with cancer - he was in the Lakes with his ageing dog of 18(!) finding some space away from the emotional turmoil in his life I suppose - he and his wife had worked side by side for years as dry stone wallers he told me...
He asked why I wanted to cover the route in 5 days, having already covered it in 7, which he regarded as quick... I had no ready answer as I picked at my bowl of Smash... and still don't, but if you are fortunate enough not to have something in your life that drives you to seek some kind of physical limit and be content to enjoy the great outdoors more in the spirit they deserve then I admire you and others who seek a little solitude without the misery of pain and hunger... nice one,
lwm
_________________________
St Bees or Bust!
A Walk in the Park...s

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#58049 - 03/09/10 03:47 PM Re: Osmotherly Car Parking? [Re: lightweightmick]
Slogger Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
I echo those words Mick. I too am driven to do do things the hard way it seems, why I don't know either. Perhaps it's the competitive, enthusiastic very fit company I keep, even though most are a lot younger than mine own 64 years. Like me they too are always pushing to improve and become better.
I tell my customers that the best holiday and way of relaxing for me, is go on a long hard walk.
Many of them are walkers too, and I also tell them that sometimes I wish I could be satisfied with walking a route at 'normal' pace, not doing quite so many daily miles, or booking B&B accommodation.
The thing is I get a real kick out of doing hard walks, even when totally knacked at the end of the day. I am fortunate enough to be actively very fit, and trying to remain so.
The harder it is, the more i enjoy the success. Enduring the challenge, yes, but enjoying it all the way, despite the blisters, aching body, discomfort and yes, even the failures.
Dave.

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#58050 - 03/09/10 04:07 PM Re: Osmotherly Car Parking? [Re: Slogger]
Slogger Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
LWM,
One thing with my forthcoming attempt, is that with my schedule, i may have a problem getting supplies and being fed.
Rough proposed outline is.
1. 4am St. Bees to Grisedale Tarn, pos food at Rostwaite (4pm) may be too late at Grasmere.
2. 4am Grisedale Tarn to Sunbiggin Tarn, pos food at Shap?
3. 4am ST to short of Richmond, pos food at Keld?
4. 4am near Richmond to Clay Bank Top, pos food at Ing Cross?
5. 4am CBT to Robin hoods bay, pos food at Gromont?
What do you think regarding food places, also is wild camping pos at destinations?
Dave.

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