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#47949 - 23/06/09 08:11 PM Politics.
Lounge Lizard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/05/06
Posts: 2013
Loc: Stafford
Whyever is it that the important and interesting topic of POLITICS rarely gets an airing on this forum ?
Surely a frank, civilised discussion about the political issues of the day would only be to the benefit of the forum and would be no more of a digression from long distance walks than some of the other topics on here.

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#47951 - 23/06/09 08:37 PM Re: Politics. [Re: Lounge Lizard]
Harland Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 29/04/05
Posts: 1324
Loc: North Yorkshire
In other times it could be a lively discussion but currently it would be hard to find many people with different views on our MPs, but I guess that "if it is in their rules" they can claim whatever they want even if it is illegal for the rest of us.
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#47952 - 23/06/09 09:33 PM Re: Politics. [Re: Harland]
Oldun Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1750
Loc: Renens, Vaud, Switzerland
We elect politicians to do our thinking for us because we are too lazy to think for ourselves. The only time we get to know what "they" are doing is when the media tells us what to think and what to say.

The reason that the UK is always in such a mess is because "politics" is something that comes up every 12 to 18 years or so, and at other times is totally ignored.

A bit like going hypocritically to church three times in our lives for births, deaths or marriages, staring at the Christian Bible not knowing what it means, or listening dumbly to the piped-in hymns because we don’t know the words or how to sing.

At other times "politics" is forgotten about, unless we have a few pints under our belts and are trying to drunkenly appear "intellectual”.

Once, every now and then, we stop and think….by heck…this place is a mess! What are they going to do about it….there should be a law about it!

Well, we have left them in….and left them to their own devises. We have only ourselves to blame.

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#48110 - 05/07/09 10:07 PM Re: Politics. [Re: Oldun]
landryrk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 17/11/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Austin, Texas
Being from the colonies, we've heard lots of Bush bashing at the B&B fryups and at pubs. Being a Democrat, I was just fine with it but some fellow Americans got really pissed off if the bashing got too rough. To be fair, we also heard lots of Blair bashing.
_________________________
The older we get, the better we were.

C2C September 2004
Cotswolds Way May-June 2006
Dingle Way August-September 2007
Hadrian's Wall September 2009
Essex Way April 2013

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#48117 - 06/07/09 07:55 AM Re: Politics. [Re: landryrk]
Bliss 60 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: Birmingham
Originally Posted By: landryrk
Being from the colonies, we've heard lots of Bush bashing at the B&B fryups and at pubs. Being a Democrat, I was just fine with it but some fellow Americans got really pissed off if the bashing got too rough. To be fair, we also heard lots of Blair bashing.


I think you'll find that there will be a lot of people over here saying how you got it right the last time with Obama! People in the UK have a natural affinity with the American people - but that doesn't mean we will agree with you when you elect dangerous lunatics.

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#48119 - 06/07/09 08:49 AM Re: Politics. [Re: Bliss 60]
Lounge Lizard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/05/06
Posts: 2013
Loc: Stafford
Originally Posted By: Bliss 60
Originally Posted By: landryrk
Being from the colonies, we've heard lots of Bush bashing at the B&B fryups and at pubs. Being a Democrat, I was just fine with it but some fellow Americans got really pissed off if the bashing got too rough. To be fair, we also heard lots of Blair bashing.


I think you'll find that there will be a lot of people over here saying how you got it right the last time with Obama! People in the UK have a natural affinity with the American people - but that doesn't mean we will agree with you when you elect dangerous lunatics.


Yes, I remember the eighties with dread - a dangerous lunatic across the pond and Thatcher over here, I often wasn't sure who was worse, not, in the interests of political balance, that I'm suggesting that Obama and Brown are without fault.

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#48130 - 06/07/09 05:03 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: landryrk]
joe yak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 22/02/09
Posts: 160
Loc: berkeley, ca, usa
Originally Posted By: landryrk
Being from the colonies, we've heard lots of Bush bashing at the B&B fryups and at pubs. Being a Democrat, I was just fine with it but some fellow Americans got really pissed off if the bashing got too rough. To be fair, we also heard lots of Blair bashing.


Good Lord. Let's be fair about it. GWB was a go-fer, not a statesman, who found himself charming. He had the makings of a great donut chef; afterall, he was the first US President to serve bangers and burgers at a Presidential banquet. Blair was his happy energetic poodle-boy---or lap-dog.
_________________________
"Beneath his pessimism, his bleak conviction that all the machinery was rigged against him, at the bottom of his soul was a faith that he was going to outwit it by carefully watching the signs he was going to know when to dodge and be spared." -H.Thompson

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#48140 - 06/07/09 11:07 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: joe yak]
Munich Rob Offline
Full Member

Registered: 24/01/03
Posts: 7
Loc: München
To pinch a line from Timothy Spall out of Auf Wiedersehen Pet...
"thats democracy, everybody gets what nobody wants"
Could be right!

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#48143 - 06/07/09 11:35 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Munich Rob]
landryrk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 17/11/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Austin, Texas
Blair was very eloquent when he visited the USA and, with his command of the Kings English, helped Bush sell the War on Terror to the USA. I loved to watch Blair perform on Prime Minister's Questions. I stopped listening when Brown came to power. I was waiting for Cameron but maybe I'll be waiting for a long time.
_________________________
The older we get, the better we were.

C2C September 2004
Cotswolds Way May-June 2006
Dingle Way August-September 2007
Hadrian's Wall September 2009
Essex Way April 2013

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#48147 - 07/07/09 07:44 AM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: landryrk]
Bliss 60 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: Birmingham
Originally Posted By: landryrk
Blair was very eloquent when he visited the USA and, with his command of the Kings English, helped Bush sell the War on Terror to the USA. I loved to watch Blair perform on Prime Minister's Questions. I stopped listening when Brown came to power. I was waiting for Cameron but maybe I'll be waiting for a long time.


Hmmm - Cameron is doing his best to be elected on the "best of the worst" ticket - saying next to nothing about policies and anticipating that the Labour Party will have defeated itself by the election. Things are looking tough for the ordinary people in this country whoever gets elected - but it'll be toughest under the Conservatives. At the end of the day - they will look after their own as they always have done.

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#48151 - 07/07/09 09:17 AM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Bliss 60]
Lounge Lizard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/05/06
Posts: 2013
Loc: Stafford
Going back a few years, here's a good one, Arthur Scargill explaining how the miners losing their 1984 strike was everyone's fault but his ;
http://spailpin1903.blogspot.com/2009/03/we-could-surrender-or-stand-and-fight.html

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#48152 - 07/07/09 09:17 AM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Bliss 60]
Lounge Lizard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/05/06
Posts: 2013
Loc: Stafford
Going back a few years, here's a good one, Arthur Scargill explaining how the miners losing their 1984 strike was everyone's fault but his ;
http://spailpin1903.blogspot.com/2009/03/we-could-surrender-or-stand-and-fight.html

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#48283 - 09/07/09 05:32 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Lounge Lizard]
Mark Bradshaw Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 238
I think Bliar and Bush had listened to a line from Crimson Tide :"We hear to preserve democracy,not practice it."
Nimrod

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#48288 - 09/07/09 07:13 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Bliss 60]
landryrk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 17/11/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Austin, Texas
Compared to the USA, the UK has, it seems to me, way too many political parties and members of the House of Commons & House of Lords. You will be way ahead of the USA system if you limit the number of parties to just four: Labour, Co-Operative, Conservative & Liberal Democrats. Slash the 740 members of the House of Lords to just, say, 4 members per Region for a total of 36 members - no more life members, terms limited to six years like the US Senate. The House of Commons could be trimmed a bit from 600+ by redistricting the nine regions and subdivisions and limit to 2-year terms. Lean Mean Political Machine.

Flame suit has been donned.
_________________________
The older we get, the better we were.

C2C September 2004
Cotswolds Way May-June 2006
Dingle Way August-September 2007
Hadrian's Wall September 2009
Essex Way April 2013

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#48295 - 09/07/09 08:08 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: landryrk]
Lounge Lizard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/05/06
Posts: 2013
Loc: Stafford
Originally Posted By: landryrk
Compared to the USA, the UK has, it seems to me, way too many political parties and members of the House of Commons & House of Lords. You will be way ahead of the USA system if you limit the number of parties to just four: Labour, Co-Operative, Conservative & Liberal Democrats. Slash the 740 members of the House of Lords to just, say, 4 members per Region for a total of 36 members - no more life members, terms limited to six years like the US Senate. The House of Commons could be trimmed a bit from 600+ by redistricting the nine regions and subdivisions and limit to 2-year terms. Lean Mean Political Machine.

Flame suit has been donned.


Well, that's food for thought. Limiting the number of parties might not be a bad idea so long as those four didn't include the Conservatives.

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#48304 - 10/07/09 07:09 AM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Bliss 60]
Oldun Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1750
Loc: Renens, Vaud, Switzerland
So what have we learned in two millennia?


"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.

--- Cicero , 55 BC

 



Evidently, nothing....

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#48328 - 10/07/09 09:12 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Oldun]
landryrk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 17/11/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Austin, Texas
The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections.

Lord Acton
_________________________
The older we get, the better we were.

C2C September 2004
Cotswolds Way May-June 2006
Dingle Way August-September 2007
Hadrian's Wall September 2009
Essex Way April 2013

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#48340 - 11/07/09 11:34 AM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: landryrk]
Oldun Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1750
Loc: Renens, Vaud, Switzerland
Landryrk

Trying to think of something intelligent to say about "politics" but am finding the effort too strenuous.

How is your ancient President doing in retirement?

Your new one seems to be getting about a bit?

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#48343 - 11/07/09 01:48 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Oldun]
landryrk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 17/11/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Austin, Texas
George W. has been very quiet in retirement. His vice President Dick Cheney has been more vocal in criticizing Mr. Obama's policies. Most Republicans are fearing that Obama is pushing the US into socialism.
_________________________
The older we get, the better we were.

C2C September 2004
Cotswolds Way May-June 2006
Dingle Way August-September 2007
Hadrian's Wall September 2009
Essex Way April 2013

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#48349 - 11/07/09 02:28 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Oldun]
Lounge Lizard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/05/06
Posts: 2013
Loc: Stafford
Originally Posted By: Oldun
Landryrk

Trying to think of something intelligent to say about "politics" but am finding the effort too strenuous.

How is your ancient President doing in retirement?

Your new one seems to be getting about a bit?


'Getting about a bit' is what that other young president Obama has been compared with was well known for too, but the current incumbant might serve a full term if he doesn't give a speech criticising the influence of freemasonry as JFK unwisely did not long before his assasination. .

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#48350 - 11/07/09 02:47 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Lounge Lizard]
bogstomper Offline
Full Member

Registered: 26/12/08
Posts: 34
Well,Obama has got to do a World tour to every country to undo all the Anti-American feelings that George W Bush established.
Will he be able to get all countries on his side and give the USA a good name! I doubt it.

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#48356 - 11/07/09 07:12 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: bogstomper]
Redlesweb Offline
Full Member

Registered: 18/11/04
Posts: 228
Loc: London & Glasgow
Being a social worker whose occupation is not respected nor supported by a labour government, I have rather strong feelings. Our Children's Minister supported a vicious and provocative campaign by the Sun newspaper ultimately leading to an even bigger crisis in staff shortages. Labour are not labour - they do not support or even acknowledge the ordinary person. The development of the new 'underclass' under Labour power speaks volumes. But I agree with Lounge Lizard, under Conservative the situation can only become more dire - my heart sinks.
As for America, Obama provides me with much solace. :-)

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#48388 - 12/07/09 08:24 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: landryrk]
Oldun Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1750
Loc: Renens, Vaud, Switzerland
Originally Posted By: landryrk
George W. has been very quiet in retirement. His vice President Dick Cheney has been more vocal in criticizing Mr. Obama's policies. Most Republicans are fearing that Obama is pushing the US into socialism.


My respectful observations as an outsider would be that although to an American there seems to be a great difference between the US political parties, for a European both your parties might be classed as to the right of the political spectrum and what you fear as “socialism” would still be to the right of the political dividing line.

However, to the observer there does seem to be an enormous difference between the haves and the have-nots, the enormously rich and the desperately poor. Similar to a situation that was present in Europe at the start of the First World War.

Maybe what your current administration is doing is trying to improve the lot of the middle class and give the desperately poor hope, while still maintaining the support of the ultra rich. A very delicate balancing act.

This is a personal observation and I stand to be corrected.

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#48389 - 12/07/09 08:41 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Oldun]
landryrk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 17/11/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Austin, Texas
Oldun,

I'm with Obama all the way. I don't fear a move to the left of center. Obama's "base" want health care for all, like they do in Canada and the UK. But we're always being warned about the ungodly waiting for surgery and the like in the NHS in the UK. Most of our UK B&B proprietors are very critical of the NHS.
_________________________
The older we get, the better we were.

C2C September 2004
Cotswolds Way May-June 2006
Dingle Way August-September 2007
Hadrian's Wall September 2009
Essex Way April 2013

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#48391 - 12/07/09 09:01 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: landryrk]
Gregg Offline
Full Member

Registered: 18/01/05
Posts: 369
Loc: Cotati, CA, USA
Oldun, very good observations, quite a balancing act. The very heavy straw that upsets the balance is the undue influence of special interests that keep meaningful change from happening. From the outset, Obama has fought the influence of special interest groups. With health care reform, we will see if he has much success.

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#48442 - 13/07/09 09:36 AM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Gregg]
m/ark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 559
Loc: Cirencester.
Anybody voting for labour?

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#48445 - 13/07/09 10:09 AM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: m/ark]
Oldun Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1750
Loc: Renens, Vaud, Switzerland
Originally Posted By: m/ark
Anybody voting for labour?


As with all political parties around the world, if they are in power for too long they run out of ideas and start to believe in their own right to govern, forgetting why they were voted in to power in the first place.

After 12 years in government now is the time for change, a few years rest in opposition and a renewal of the ideologies that first created the Labour Party.

For them to stop in power any longer would be to the detriment of the country and the Labour movement.

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#48477 - 13/07/09 01:24 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Oldun]
m/ark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 559
Loc: Cirencester.
Yes your right, labour is done, but who should I vote for? they all seem to have their own interests at heart, what about the BNP they seem to have so many good policys, like hanging for murder. pulling out of the EU and stoping the facist left from destroying are culture.

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#48487 - 13/07/09 02:22 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: m/ark]
Oldun Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1750
Loc: Renens, Vaud, Switzerland
Originally Posted By: m/ark
Yes your right, labour is done, but who should I vote for? they all seem to have their own interests at heart, what about the BNP they seem to have so many good policys, like hanging for murder. pulling out of the EU and stoping the facist left from destroying are culture.


In my humble opinion, regardless of ones political bias, there are only two political parties in the UK sufficiently organised and with the experience to run a country nationally and internationally. All the others are either solo gifted amateurs, appeasers, political theorists, or reactionaries like the BNP. None of these parties (in the short term) would be capable of mounting a serious government capable of running a country.

With the world in its present state of economic and political chaos can the UK afford to experiment with less well organised and membership barren parties?

For the stability of the country, at the present time, there is only a choice between the two major players. If one clearly believes that one has had its day and needs to recuperate, then there is only one other choice left.

Could an improvement to the current never ending story, be to adopt the American model of having fixed terms of office for the elected officials, or the Swiss model of a clear mandate for elected officials, and anything outside that mandate going to referendum?

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#48495 - 13/07/09 03:14 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Oldun]
m/ark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 559
Loc: Cirencester.
So by what you are saying I should vote tory?

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#48521 - 13/07/09 08:55 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: m/ark]
Oldun Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1750
Loc: Renens, Vaud, Switzerland
Originally Posted By: m/ark
So by what you are saying I should vote tory?


Look at the policies, look at the candidates, look at where the current administration is taking us and where the next administration could take us, then make your own choice.

Through the ages millions of people have fought and died to give you the freedom you now have of self expression and self determination.

Use your vote wisely to ensure that that right of freedom is still available for our future generations.

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#48546 - 13/07/09 11:41 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Oldun]
m/ark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 559
Loc: Cirencester.
but you said there was only two choices, so if I dont vote for labour I have to vote for cons, policy is not worth the paper it is writen on, what hapened to the referendom on the EU, I can asure you we do not live in a democracy, voting is somthing people are allowed to do as it gives them a sence of decision making and they think it makes a differance, it is a waste of time, because the main partys have the monopoly, I think we are made to belive a democracy exists but I know it does not, it is a fony one, we are controled by certain people who hold all the power. how can the house of lords be democratic, please. MPs get off scot free for fraud, and mandelson has come back from the dead more times than wizard of oz was shown on tv at xmas. you canot make it up, thats why I will vote for none of the main partys as they are all for one and none for all.

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#48547 - 13/07/09 11:47 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: m/ark]
m/ark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 559
Loc: Cirencester.
yes I bet all them dead soilders if they could see the state of this country would not be happy they died for a society that is so selfish and corupt.

this goverment has betrayed them all.

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#48555 - 14/07/09 06:36 AM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Oldun]
Bliss 60 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: Birmingham
Originally Posted By: Oldun
For the stability of the country, at the present time, there is only a choice between the two major players. If one clearly believes that one has had its day and needs to recuperate, then there is only one other choice left.


Whichever party gets elected - there are tough times ahead. The question is who will do the most to try and soften the blows for most people. My view is that at heart the Conservative Party stands for the wealthy in our society and they will look after those people. Labour will do what they can to make life as bearable as possible for everyone.

Whoever gets elected, it'd probably be better if they don't get elected by much of a majority - in fact a hung parliament might be a good thing. Some Lib Dems have something to offer - Vince Cable's assessment of the economic situation is probably far more astute than anyone else at the moment and he'd make a good chancellor. I have not heard the Conservative Party say anything sensible yet about the economic situation or how they intend to do anything about it. They are relying on people like Oldun to vote for anyone other than the people in power.

As for the BNP - it is a sad symptom of how bad things are that anyone can suggest them as anything other than the distasteful nazis that they are without right minded people opposing them. People - bear in mind that this is how Hitler came to power.

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#48557 - 14/07/09 07:36 AM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Bliss 60]
Kate's Dad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 23/06/05
Posts: 274
Loc: Derbyshire
It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in.

If democracy worked, they'd abolish it.

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#48563 - 14/07/09 09:17 AM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Bliss 60]
Oldun Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1750
Loc: Renens, Vaud, Switzerland
[quote=Bliss 60][quote=Oldun]
Whichever party gets elected - there are tough times ahead. The question is who will do the most to try and soften the blows for most people.

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#48564 - 14/07/09 09:22 AM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Oldun]
Oldun Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1750
Loc: Renens, Vaud, Switzerland
Which ever party gets in will have to organise the repayment of the National debit that has now risen to staggering proportions.

Last time the Conservatives got in some 30 years ago, they were saddled with the same sort of debit left by that Labour government. But they put the country back on its feet again: and became hated for what they had to do.

Do you think for one moment that there is a magic fairy out there that will just wave a wand and the national debit will disappear?

Socialist policies squander money by increasing none productive bureaucracy in order to shield their elected officials from responsibility for their actions, or inaction.

They have squandered the wealth of the country left to them by the Conservatives by over the top bureaucracy and rank bad mismanagement of the national resources.

They have relied upon “spin” to fool the public and the new young generation of voters (who have known nothing in their lives but having their arses wiped for them at every turn) into believing that the Socialist Party (as they have now developed it), is the only party that is on the side of the now non-existent “working class”.

Don’t believe all you are spun about the national debit and the economic crisis being the fault of an International crisis. Yes, there is an international crisis, but how is it that most of the other countries have managed to survive with out the crushing national debit of the UK?

Which ever party gets in next time will have to streamline their departments, as there are no nationalised industries left in UK to close down (as happened last time).

A vast percentage of our manufacturing is done abroad: which means that we pay our money to other countries for things we don’t produce.

Would it be a radical idea to assume that in order to save money the UK brings industry back into the country so that the created wealth is circulated in house?

At one time not so long ago, Britain was the powerhouse of Europe.

Under successive Labour governments we lost it.

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#48572 - 14/07/09 12:06 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Lounge Lizard]
Lounge Lizard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/05/06
Posts: 2013
Loc: Stafford
Originally Posted By: Lounge Lizard
Going back a few years, here's a good one, Arthur Scargill explaining how the miners losing their 1984 strike was everyone's fault but his ;
http://spailpin1903.blogspot.com/2009/03/we-could-surrender-or-stand-and-fight.html


Oldun, With your political views how can you let an article by Arthur Scargill pass by withoout comment ?

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#48579 - 14/07/09 12:29 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Lounge Lizard]
tim smith Offline
Full Member

Registered: 28/10/06
Posts: 1054
Loc: england
oldun
i agree with a lot you say,
but "at one time not so long ago , Britain was the power house of Europe" yes , but is it now a better green and pleasent land with out all that smog.
_________________________
ern

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#48586 - 14/07/09 01:45 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: tim smith]
m/ark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 559
Loc: Cirencester.
As for the BNP - it is a sad symptom of how bad things are that anyone can suggest them as anything other than the distasteful nazis that they are without right minded people opposing them. People - bear in mind that this is how Hitler came to power.----------------------------------------------------------------------

how can you make this claim about the BNP, they have not cheated us out of taxes, they do not fund organisations that go around attacking people just because they have a political view, Nazi is a strong statement and unjustified, the reason Hitler came to power was because his own countrymen were being treated like second class citzens, so if the goverment stoped using political corectness and letting are country turn in to a geto with third world imigration then yes the BNP would not get many votes, but they are not nazis and if you bother to take the time to read their polcys instead of the lies labour con lib, tell you backed by the BBC and other media organisations you would find common sence. people dont like what this country is turning into, the blood of their ancesters was spilt for this country, but outsiders apear to have more rights. can you not see what is happening, we are being forced in to a EU superstate, and to make sure it happens they are importing millions of immigrants so they dilute any loyaly and destoy are britishness, there are millions who have no conection with britain other than a pasport, I wonder how many would flee in the event of a world war?

most british people are sick to death of the state of this country and the police state that is developing, and all because they do not trust its nationals, or shall I say new arrivals, so why should they have to get a national ID card, just because they let terrerists in to the uk who want to kill.

remeber quarantine for dogs, in those days mesures would have been taken to provent N1H1 swine flue, to they take no mesures and even if you have aids you are welcome here to spread it about, maybe I sound right wing, but I talk common sence.

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#48590 - 14/07/09 02:38 PM Re: Politics. [Re: Lounge Lizard]
Black Sailor Offline
Full Member

Registered: 14/05/05
Posts: 184
Originally Posted By: Lounge Lizard

Surely a frank, civilised discussion about the political issues of the day would only be to the benefit of the forum

It seemed a good idea at the time, LL. However, we seem to have ended up with frank and uncivilised. frown

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#48596 - 14/07/09 03:14 PM Re: Politics. [Re: Black Sailor]
m/ark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 559
Loc: Cirencester.
It seemed a good idea at the time, LL. However, we seem to have ended up with frank and uncivilised. ///////////////////////////

black sailer.

you are acting like Gorden Brown, changing the subject is one of the spin tricks the the raven Labour party use. do you not watch telly, the house of commons only discuss there own scandles these days, not the curent topics but it is you who is being uncivilised tying to deny people a chance to speak. just thought I would add my view, not personal.

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#48598 - 14/07/09 03:58 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: m/ark]
Harland Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 29/04/05
Posts: 1324
Loc: North Yorkshire
Originally Posted By: m/ark
maybe I sound right wing, but I talk common sence.


Can we have a vote on when you talk/write common "sence"/sense? You have been a member on this forum for 2 months "under your current name" with over 200 trivial posts that clutter up the boards. The only thing that surprises me is that a) Sherpa haven't already excluded you and b) some individuals take your posts seriously. If they were funny then I could understand but they are pathetic! Don't bother to respond as I have no interest in any of your postings. Hopefully the message board will revert to good advice and guidance to those who require as well as furthering Sherpa's business interests. If you think that my posting has "over stepped the mark" then by all means notify Sherpa.
_________________________
Pennine Way 2005&2014; C2C 2006; SWCP 2007; WHW 2008; GGW 2008; Dales Way 2011; Clev.W 2012; Yorkshire W.W. 2012; Offa's Dyke 2013; Peddars Way & Norfolk Coast Path 2014; Pembrokeshire Coast Path 2015: LEJoG in stages 2018: Camino 5/2019.

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#48599 - 14/07/09 04:21 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Harland]
Black Sailor Offline
Full Member

Registered: 14/05/05
Posts: 184
The wit and wisdom of m/ark: 'the problem is to day women have too much freedom.....I dont trust men.....women have funny minds - better to avoid them if you can.....even if you have aids you are welcome here to spread it about, maybe I sound right wing, but I talk common sence.'

All this, and dogs on wheels and how to kill a rabit [sic] as well. It's a bit surreal - like being trapped in the corner of a bar by the pub bore. crazy

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#48604 - 14/07/09 05:06 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Black Sailor]
Oldun Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1750
Loc: Renens, Vaud, Switzerland
Harland/Black Sailor, good move.....divert attention away from the original issue.

But don't deride m/ark....he is a product of our society that we must learn to live with as a "democracy". If you can't handle it, don't get near the fire. I fear for the outcome of the next reactionary led election.

To be serious, I agree with you. The current topic has run its course and is in danger of getting out of hand.Lets get back to the reason this web site was first started and leave politics to the right forum.

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#48605 - 14/07/09 05:13 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Oldun]
Lounge Lizard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/05/06
Posts: 2013
Loc: Stafford
Originally Posted By: Oldun
Harland/Black Sailor, good move.....divert attention away from the original issue.

But don't deride m/ark....he is a product of our society that we must learn to live with as a "democracy". If you can't handle it, don't get near the fire. I fear for the outcome of the next reactionary led election.

To be serious, I agree with you. The current topic has run its course and is in danger of getting out of hand.Lets get back to the reason this web site was first started and leave politics to the right forum.

No, Oldun, we can't leave this topic without your thoughts about Arthur Scargill.

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#48606 - 14/07/09 05:35 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Oldun]
Black Sailor Offline
Full Member

Registered: 14/05/05
Posts: 184
Originally Posted By: Oldun
But don't deride m/ark....he is a product of our society that we must learn to live with as a "democracy".

I strongly agree with that, Oldun. However strange and extreme some people's views may be, as long as they are legal it's better to hear them. We are very fortunate to live in a free society, and freedom of speech applies to everyone - even the pub bore. wink

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#48607 - 14/07/09 05:45 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Black Sailor]
plodder Offline
Full Member

Registered: 23/03/05
Posts: 206
Loc: England
Thought for today

When did a muslim highjack a plane and say take me to Saudi Arabia?

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#48610 - 14/07/09 06:20 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Harland]
m/ark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 559
Loc: Cirencester.

Can we have a vote on when you talk/write common "sence"/sense? You have been a member on this forum for 2 months "under your current name" with over 200 trivial posts that clutter up the boards. The only thing that surprises me is that a) Sherpa haven't already excluded you and b) some individuals take your posts seriously. If they were funny then I could understand but they are pathetic! Don't bother to respond as I have no interest in any of your postings. Hopefully the message board will revert to good advice and guidance to those who require as well as furthering Sherpa's business interests. If you think that my posting has "over stepped the mark" then by all means notify Sherpa.[/quote]

Harland please dont get upset, get sence of humour instead.

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#48611 - 14/07/09 06:35 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: m/ark]
m/ark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 559
Loc: Cirencester.
it is amazing, I highlight a few facts about politics and lefty labour supoters who dont like the truth start atacking me with lies and spin.

well Harland, if people like and trust my views then thats their buissness not yours, Sorry if my life expereinces upset you, but having served in two wars and cimbed many mountains around the world, I feel I am very quilified to give good advice on a strolling across a few hills, I will not sink to saying nasty thing about you, I only would deliver that information face to face as I am a man.So be real and lighten up, why would I report you to sherpa van for your post?

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#48612 - 14/07/09 06:44 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: m/ark]
m/ark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 559
Loc: Cirencester.
Harland
Full Member

Registered: 29/04/05
Posts: 405
Loc: England
I guess that as I was happy with Compeed I haven't tried anything else. Perhaps I should give it a go. Thanks.
Harland
Full Member

Harland just hadpend to find this post on the 5 day attempt, yes it is you taking my advice, now what was that you said?

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#48650 - 15/07/09 07:17 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: m/ark]
Oldun Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1750
Loc: Renens, Vaud, Switzerland
Lounge Lizard, so as not to disappoint you I have read the various Googlised history's about Scargil and have penned the following impressions:

Arthur Scargil is a brilliant orator and a fervent Communist who lives only to keep the class war between the “Working Class” and “Capitalism” going and cares little which UK government is in power.

His drive for the rights of the “Working Class” in the face of “Capitalism” took him to Moscow at the height of the Cold War. He subsequently destroyed the Labour Party and brought down the Heath led Tory government.

The era of the late 70’s was a crucial time for the UK when the country was tilting 9/10th on the way to becoming a fully blown bureaucratic Communist State under a weak and divided Labour Party.

The normal people in Britain at that time had become disillusioned with crippling strikes, inflation, devaluation and an incapacitated Labour Party, gave a reactionary landslide victory to the Iron Lady, which gave her carte blanche to meet Scargills Flying Pickets head on and subsequently break the power of the Communist lead Unions.

As with all extremists, his loss, especially against a woman, was seen as weakness and he became ostracised by the very union he then represented as president.

The legacy of his extremism and the British peoples fight against his policies left millions unemployed and vast areas of the Midlands and North financial waste lands.

This was 30 years ago and the UK has moved on……or has it?

Is history repeating it self under another guise?

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#48652 - 15/07/09 07:52 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Oldun]
m/ark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 559
Loc: Cirencester.
Lounge Lizard, so as not to disappoint you I have read the various Googlised history's about Scargil///////////////////////

not wanting to upset you oldun, but surly you dont belive every thing you read on the web, may I sugest you use political jounals to get your information from, even I could write a website proclaiming author was one king.

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#48658 - 15/07/09 09:46 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: m/ark]
Oldun Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1750
Loc: Renens, Vaud, Switzerland
U r of corse refering 2 author pendragging the famous cornish bard

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#48663 - 15/07/09 10:17 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Oldun]
Lounge Lizard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/05/06
Posts: 2013
Loc: Stafford
Originally Posted By: Oldun
Lounge Lizard, so as not to disappoint you I have read the various Googlised history's about Scargil and have penned the following impressions:

Arthur Scargil is a brilliant orator and a fervent Communist who lives only to keep the class war between the “Working Class” and “Capitalism” going and cares little which UK government is in power.

His drive for the rights of the “Working Class” in the face of “Capitalism” took him to Moscow at the height of the Cold War. He subsequently destroyed the Labour Party and brought down the Heath led Tory government.

The era of the late 70’s was a crucial time for the UK when the country was tilting 9/10th on the way to becoming a fully blown bureaucratic Communist State under a weak and divided Labour Party.

The normal people in Britain at that time had become disillusioned with crippling strikes, inflation, devaluation and an incapacitated Labour Party, gave a reactionary landslide victory to the Iron Lady, which gave her carte blanche to meet Scargills Flying Pickets head on and subsequently break the power of the Communist lead Unions.

As with all extremists, his loss, especially against a woman, was seen as weakness and he became ostracised by the very union he then represented as president.

The legacy of his extremism and the British peoples fight against his policies left millions unemployed and vast areas of the Midlands and North financial waste lands.

This was 30 years ago and the UK has moved on……or has it?

Is history repeating it self under another guise?

Oldun. Thanks for that observation. The trouble with youngsters today is their lack of an attention span such that they might not get beyond your "Arthur Scargil is [a] brilliant .... "

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#48665 - 15/07/09 10:20 PM Re: Politics---B/B [Re: Oldun]
m/ark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 559
Loc: Cirencester.
yes, did you know their are only 500 bards around the world?

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