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#70795 - 30/09/12 07:03 PM The Spine Race?
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Ive got until November 2nd to make up my mind to enter this race along the Pennine Way in January.
Ina weeks time or so I will go to my GPs and get the medical form filled in just in case I decide to give it a go.
I am slowly, very slowly building up my training program and took part in my first race for 5.5 years at the Red Rose XC league at Leigh Lancs.
I was surprised to finish first vet 65 and over 3 minutes ahead of my nearest rival. I can't wait to see how I go when Ive lost another 1/2 stone. I wish we had been allowed to run with the rest of the senior mens though. Looking at the time and position with other runners, of the first vet 60, I'm sure I could have given him a run for his money.
The Spine has a much bigger entry to date than last year with a number of competitors from abroad. I wonder what they will think of Pennine Way, they may be in for a surprise, me thinks.
Dave.

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#70796 - 30/09/12 08:59 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Les + Heidi Offline
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Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 327
Loc: hertfordshire
Hi Dave,
Well done on that race result !
I will follow this thread with great interest, the spine looks live a living hell but I guess thats the challenge, certainly makes for good reading !
All the best
Les

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#70797 - 30/09/12 09:21 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Les + Heidi]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Thanks Les,
I hope that knee is on the mend.
Dave.

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#70798 - 30/09/12 09:59 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Les + Heidi Offline
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Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 327
Loc: hertfordshire
Getting there slowly Dave thanks, Im going to the gym now a couple of times a week for non weight bearing routines. My appointment with the specialist at the hospital is in two weeks, that will be virtually 4 months since I hurt it. Ive set myself a target of a weeks backpacking at Easter !

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#70829 - 09/10/12 07:33 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Les + Heidi]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Got the medical form filled in by my GP today (a fellow runner) who gave the all clear to give it a go.
Heavier than I would have liked at 75Kgs, but bpm at 50 and blood pressure at 122/72 he said I was very fit for age.
All I need to do now is get the 350 together and enter online.
Dave.

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#70830 - 10/10/12 02:55 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tonyk Offline
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Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK
Give it a go.As long as you know when to stop you will be okay.

Do you have over night stops or does the entire run have to be done in one go?

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#70833 - 11/10/12 03:59 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: tonyk]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Therer are 5 undercover checkpoints where you can have a hot meal and get your head down, although they prefer you don't hang about too long.
It's a non stop ultra, first one to KY wins.
I think it's a matter of working out a strategy and trying to keep to it and not be drawn into what others are doing.
Some will have road support, which I think is a bit unfair on those that dont, as clearly that is an advantage.
Looks like there will be around 70 on the start line, at the moment with about 40 doing the full Spine race and the rest doing the Spine challenge, finishing at Hawes.
I am not bothered about walking in the dark, the weather will make or break it.
Dave.

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#70834 - 11/10/12 04:14 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Les + Heidi Offline
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Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 327
Loc: hertfordshire
What a fantastic challenge, I'll be cheering you on from the comfort of my arm chair mate !

Seriously, I remember looking at the reports you posted of last years spine and it look amazing, wish you all the best with it and I will enjoy reading all about it afterwards.

PS Will be interested in the kit list you end up taking


Les

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#70838 - 12/10/12 04:41 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Les + Heidi]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
The big advantage is the 40 Litre kit bag that they transport to each checkpoint for you, meaning you don't have to carry everything you may need for the full distance.
Thought I had done my right hamstring at the Mid Lancs XC last week, I had to limp round the last 5K to finish, then later on my lower back went into spasm which is still sore. Now things have started to settle with the help of Diazapm etc it is clear the trigger is the damaged Sacroiliac Joint ligaments, that I suffered when I got knocked down crossing that road. Must still be weakness there and somehow I caused it to flare up. I'm sure it's only temporary.
Ive got planty of lightweight gear but I think I will need a lightweight but warm sleeping bag. Looks like I will have to settle for 2/3 season one and hope I don't have to bivvy down in freezing conditions.
Dave.

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#70840 - 14/10/12 12:06 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
MIKE M Offline
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Registered: 22/11/04
Posts: 204
Looks like your 90% at doing it Dave, pleased to hear the running's coming back,but don't overdo it & spoil your prep for the spine. Watching with great interest & wishing I was 20yrs younger.
MIKE M

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#71098 - 20/10/12 09:58 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: MIKE M]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
I mised the latest XC today as I'm still having back problems, seeing the physio again on Monday. He thinks it was down to altering my gait, running that last 5K with hamstring trouble dragging my right leg. Ive had back spasms before but never lasted this long, work doesn't make it easier.
Anyway I am confident it will improve, so today I did it, I entered the Spine Race.
Inc in the fee is a training event of 40 odd miles with some pro guides and instructors, however I have declined that as I tend to train better on my own, and will probably time myself over the first 40 odd miles from Edale to Hebden Bridge, or most likely the other way round so as to not bore myself with the route.
3 months to get fit!
Dave.

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#71295 - 22/10/12 01:27 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tonyk Offline
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Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK
Good luck Dave.i think your best chance of success is to do a Cliff Young and forget all about sleeping.A steady 2 miles per hour should return a time of around 5-6 days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Young_%28athlete%29

Disclaimer:Sitting here writing this is easy,getting out there and doing it is something completely different!

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#71338 - 22/10/12 09:35 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: tonyk]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
That's interesting Tony.
We had a local from Preston some years back who held the world non stop walking record, by walking a continueous loop round Moor Park near Deepdale, Prestons football ground. He was allowed occasional short breaks but deprived himself of sleep. That must have neen damn boring apart from all the attention he got.
My actual moving time between checkpoints on my first S - N Pennine Way was faster than last years Spine Race winners, although they had about 5 hours less daylight per day.
They had it colder, I had it wetter, really wetter.
I carried 30lbs, they carried around 18lbs and had some road support plus a transported bag.
Going off that I shouldn't be bothered about pace, it is a matter like you suggest of doing without alot of sleep, and I think I'm fairly good at that. I only get around 5 hours a night at home.
I think there is a very good chance of last years record being well broken, providing the weather is similar or better.
Just had a sack weigh, coming in at 17.5 lbs with 1.5 litres water and food. Feels light for walking but heavy for running.
My back is much improved today.
Dave.

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#71340 - 22/10/12 10:23 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tonyk Offline
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Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK

Dave, the guy who walked around Moor Park was Lord Crawshaw,a fomer president of the LDWA.If my memory serves me right he set his record in 1972.

Here's a rather interesting clip of Cliff Young training.I certainly won't be adopting his form of footwear for training!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R9J55dEZY8&feature=relmfu

When I did a six day race back in the eighties I didn't bother to sleep for the first three days but on the fourth day felt like a zombie and the mileage went right down to around 40 miles a day.Over the first three days I had knocked up around 240 miles and felt strong.You need to get the mileage in before sleep deprivation sets in and then hang in there to the finish.The Spine race will be even harder as you have to maintain concentration all the time.On the track you can go into a robotic mode and almost drift in and out of sleep as you run.

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#71522 - 23/10/12 03:02 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: tonyk]
MIKE M Offline
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Registered: 22/11/04
Posts: 204
tony k
which 6day race did you do in the 80s?

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#71554 - 23/10/12 05:09 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: MIKE M]
tonyk Offline
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Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK
Trentham.It was actually run on tarmac rather than a proper running track.

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#71561 - 23/10/12 05:32 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: tonyk]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
It's working out a strategy that's proving interesting and what I think is a must.
Don't get me wrong by my enthusiasm, I am hardly likely to win the thing, there are some good experienced ultra marathoners taking part this year, however I do love competition, and this race is quite different to other ultra's, so just about anything could happen.
Dave.

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#71719 - 24/10/12 08:03 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
MIKE M Offline
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Registered: 22/11/04
Posts: 204
Tonyk,
Just wondered as I was involved with the 6dayers at Nottingham in the 80s
MIKEM

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#71723 - 24/10/12 08:38 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: MIKE M]
tonyk Offline
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Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: MIKE M
Tonyk,
Just wondered as I was involved with the 6dayers at Nottingham in the 80s
MIKEM


Mike,I went to the six day race at Nottingham in 1982 as a spectator,think it was won by Mike Newton(?).Did you compete at Nottingham yourself?

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#71838 - 25/10/12 07:31 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: tonyk]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Originally Posted By: tonyk

Dave, the guy who walked around Moor Park was Lord Crawshaw,a fomer president of the LDWA.If my memory serves me right he set his record in 1972.


Tony,the guys name is Tom Benson, he started doing these walks in 1977. However I was still in the army then and didn't come out until 1981. So it must have been in the early 80's when I saw him doing his laps during another record he set.
Not much info here, but looks like that's all that there is available:-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/georgedthompson/729721167/
Dave.

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#71839 - 25/10/12 07:34 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Take no notice of the photo date it is wrong, as you can probably guess by everyones attire!
Dave

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#71842 - 25/10/12 08:03 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tonyk Offline
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Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK
My mistake,Dave.Tom Benson broke Crawshaw's record which had been set in Liverpool,rather than Preston.

From Wiki "In 1977 Tom Benson broke the world long distance walking record by walking 314.33 miles round Moor Park. A stone recording his achievement can be seen near the Garstang Road entrance to the Avenue."

This link is interesting.It is a research study carried out on Benson during his third record breaking walk.It seems to confirm my theory that the body starts to break down due to lack of sleep after the third day.

http://bjsportmed.com/content/18/3/173.full.pdf

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#71843 - 25/10/12 08:06 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: tonyk]
tonyk Offline
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Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK

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#71919 - 26/10/12 11:23 AM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: tonyk]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Cheers Tony, that's it then, I'll just have to average slightly less than 90 miles a day, before I fall asleep on my feet.
Dave.

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#72474 - 29/10/12 06:01 AM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
MIKE M Offline
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Registered: 22/11/04
Posts: 204
Tony, no I was involved in the organization, lap scoring, feeding etc,several local running clubs chipped in to help.
MIKE M

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#77239 - 03/11/12 04:28 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: MIKE M]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
After at first declining the Spine teams offer of a training weekend, included in the cost of main race entry, I have decided to attend.
So, next weekend from Friday to Sunday there will be a series of lectures, re: night navigation, survival etc, then an ultra race around 40 odd miles of the Mary Townley Loop of the Pennine Bridleway.
This gives us a chance to check out our planned equipment, footwear, clothing etc, so should be good.
As for footwear, Ive just purchased a pair of Hoka shoes. Complete new technology, strange looking things that remind me of a Teddy Boys trainer with the wedge heels.
http://www.carterse.com/default.asp?id=2165
Lots of fell and ultra runners are raving about them, time will tell.
Dave.

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#77241 - 11/11/12 01:00 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Just got back from the training event which was excellent and very informaative. Included was a series of lectures on survival, medical, navigation etc on Friday, followed by a similated race along a slightly extended Mary Townley Loop of the Pennine Bridleway on Saturday.
I started well, running with almost 10kg on my back and kept up with last years race leader for around 8 miles before dropping off that pace and joining another group. The expected inner thigh cramp set in and I dropped back to another following group, before I had to let them go. Finally just before last light I teamed up with an army guy and we decided to stay together for the last 10 miles or so. Finding the event facitly was time consuming at the end, but we managed it just as we getting quite cold.
Two didn't finish due to tiredness and injury, and two guys who overtook us early and fired off into the distance, completly blew up and had to call for transport back to the centre.
We got round the very soggy 47 miles in just under 14 hours.
Dave.

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#77243 - 12/11/12 09:01 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Les + Heidi Offline
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Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 327
Loc: hertfordshire
Nice one Dave, how did those new running shoes go ?
Have just been reading the blog of the guy that won the race last year, great stuff. I noted that only 17 entered last year and you mentioned 40 odd this time. Look forward to hearing how your trainings going mate
Les

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#77244 - 13/11/12 03:26 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Les + Heidi]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Cheers Les,
Re the new shoes, they defo have a different feel, however I wore my trusty NF Hegehogs with Sorbothane double strike insoles. A little heavy for running and I think I suffered as a result. Maybe start off the race in lighter shoes for the first/second legs, depending on the weather, or simply decide to stay on a mostly strong walking pace.
Last years winner Gary Morrison beat us by almost 3 hours, then served us our meal which his wife Vicky had cooked. Great camararderie and spirit all round.
The feeling is that this event will grow and grow year on year.
Now for some training - just how do you run with 10 kg on your back!?
Dave.

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#77265 - 26/11/12 07:13 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Did a very wet and boggy 17 miler yesterday carrying around 12kg and walking as fast as I could.
Two thirds of the route was through sodden cattle trodden fields and was hard going slippind and sliding along. I had to alter course as a major route stile over a fence was submerged in the midst of a huge pond.
By halfway my legs felt as though they had done 30 mile not just over 8.
Anyway arrived home with wet feet and wet everything else.
The good news is that since the end of September I have lost and managing to keep it off, 11lbs. It must be more than 15 years since I was this weight and my running, such as it is improving as a result.
Not that long to go now. I may try and get a 40 miler in before mid December, after that it will be too late as I reckon on a month for full recovery.
Dave.

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#77266 - 26/11/12 08:19 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Les + Heidi Offline
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Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 327
Loc: hertfordshire
Nice one Dave, not sure what them medium range forecast is so who knows what weather challenges you may face in Jan but practice walking after all this rain is a challenge in itself, the slipping and sliding does make any walk seem twice as far. We were in the west country over the weekend and everywhere was saturated. More heavy rain due over the Pennines in the next day or two I believe. I guess mild/rain would be better for your race than very very cold weather ? (or maybe not, trench foot springs to mind)

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#77275 - 02/12/12 01:27 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Les + Heidi]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
An hour and a halfs run this morning around Lancashires Rivington area.
Very frosty cold start, but wearing thermal running tights, single thin thermal top, Goretex running jacket, hat, gloves and goretex socks over running socks and Hoka trail shoes, warmed up nicely after about 20 minutes. In fact towards the finish my toes were warm as toast.
Very icy in places, so we were not running that fast. It was just good to get the circulation flowing along at speed.
Ive just ordered another pair of Salomon Cosmic boots (I returned the first pair) to give them another chance. I loved the boots for comfort, fit, lightness of weight, it was just the fact that they leaked that let them down. I am hoping it was just a bad pair and my next ones will be ok. I will take these with me in my drop bag for the race.
Apparently the safety team are already talking about packing ice axes and crampons. I hope we wont need them - more space taken up in an already full drop bag and of course the extra weight if carried.
Perhaps the long range forecast will turn out to be wrong!?
Dave.

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#77280 - 03/12/12 10:09 AM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tonyk Offline
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Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK
I doubt if ice-axes and crampons would be of much use on the PW.The few places they would be useful are Penyghent and the climb out of Bryness.Other than that you would be able to get by using walking poles and nailed boots.Snow shoes might be useful and also skis providing the snow is compact enough.

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#77282 - 03/12/12 08:23 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: tonyk]
Slogger Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Yeah the scare of it being the worst winter in 100 years for Dec/Jan has made all the talk on the Spine Race sounding more like a major expedition than a race along the PW.
Ive been up PYG when crampons certainly made things easier, but nearer the time if it is looking as though it's going to be similar in places, I'll get some of those micro spikes. I also intend taking at least one walking pole. My new boots arrived today so I will be testing them out in the wet soon.
Dave.

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#77293 - 07/12/12 01:26 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Joining instructions arrived via E mail today. The race strats near the village hall before joining the PW at the official start at the Old Nags Head. Then theres a mile or so extra to the first checkpoint and back out to rejoin the route, so it's going to be a little bit further altogether.
Didn't get chance to wet test my new boots as the right one felt a bit tight, so sent them back and received the replacements, half a UK size bigger, today.
They say to begin tapering off, as it's not long to go now. Apart from getting back to do a few runs recently (2 a week) and losing some weight, as usual, I haven't built up anything to taper. I will have to get by on what's naturally there (or not).
Dave.

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#77312 - 11/12/12 01:54 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Doctors today, I thought I'd blown it.
Sharp stabbing pain just right of Belly Button, making working painful at times.
Appendicitis? Hernia? Strained Abdomen?
Relief, he thinks I'll be okay by race day and suggests that somehow Ive compressed a nerve.
This is highly likely with all the daily bending and crouching that forms part of my work.
Phew!
Got more or less everything together now, just got to get some cold weather gas.
Dave.

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#77313 - 11/12/12 05:37 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Les + Heidi Offline
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Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 327
Loc: hertfordshire
Hi Dave
Do you know if the organisers are going to be posting updates during the race ?

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#77314 - 11/12/12 05:38 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Les + Heidi]
Les + Heidi Offline
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Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 327
Loc: hertfordshire
Hit the wrong button there....


It would be great to see updates on the race, I guess you'll have other things on your mind than to be posting like you have on other trips !

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#77320 - 12/12/12 08:55 AM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Les + Heidi]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
They are going to provide a link soon. I will let you know as soon as it comes through.
Dave.

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#77332 - 14/12/12 07:26 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
MIKE M Offline
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Registered: 22/11/04
Posts: 204
Dave, just back from 14days holiday & catching up. Pleased all is going well mate. GO FOR IT.!!!!!
MIKE M

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#77333 - 15/12/12 12:54 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: MIKE M]
Slogger Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Cheers Mike.
Tony and anyone that's ingterested, the link for the race progress and updates is:-
http://www.thespinerace.com/updates/

Let me know if it works or not.

Dave

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#77334 - 15/12/12 01:15 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tonyk Offline
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Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK
Thanks.Dave.I will be watching this one with interest.

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#77335 - 15/12/12 03:43 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: tonyk]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Les,
Check your PMs.
Dave.

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#77338 - 17/12/12 09:02 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Les + Heidi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 327
Loc: hertfordshire
Thanks for the message Dave, the link works for me, will be checking it regularly.

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#77354 - 24/01/13 01:00 AM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tonyk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK
Sadly,Slogger and his team members,Annie Garcia and Russ Swift,had to be evacuated from the course due to a huge storm hitting the Cheviots last Friday evening.On the Saturday morning the organisers decided to pull them out as it simply wasn't safe to continue.Despite that they were on schedule to complete the race within the time limit as they still had 13.5 hrs in hand when they arrived at Lamb Hill hut,or rather fought their way through a blizzard and high winds to seek the shelter of the hut.Up to that point they had covered 255 mils in 6 days 10.5hrs,an average of over forty miles a day in atrocious conditions.A truly magnificent achievment and all three should righly be proud of themselves.

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#77357 - 26/01/13 12:31 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
MIKE M Offline
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Registered: 22/11/04
Posts: 204
I second that.
Can`t wait to hear Daves account.

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#77358 - 26/01/13 02:31 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Slogger Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Cheers guys. I will do blog shortly until then this is how it all eneded:- http://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2013/01...pine-end-stages
Dave.

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#77359 - 26/01/13 05:30 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tim smith Offline
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Registered: 28/10/06
Posts: 1054
Loc: england
Interesting reading, sorts the men from the boys
Well Done to all concerned.
_________________________
ern

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#77360 - 26/01/13 07:04 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: tim smith]
joyce taylor Offline
Full Member

Registered: 31/01/07
Posts: 317
Loc: byrness village
And presumably the women from the girls.
_________________________
http://www.forestviewbyrness.co.uk
#1 place to stay in Byrness (tripadvisor)

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#77361 - 26/01/13 07:27 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
MIKE M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 22/11/04
Posts: 204
Well done Dave,nice to see your expertise got you to safety.
Much Respect

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#77362 - 27/01/13 04:13 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: joyce taylor]
Slogger Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Originally Posted By: joyce taylor
And presumably the women from the girls.


Well put Joyce, certainly some tough ones out there.
By the way I did know your earlier comments were tongue in cheek about our linacy.
Who were the guys that dropped in on you, was it those that called it a day at Byreness, at least one German ,I think.
Dave.

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#77363 - 27/01/13 09:32 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tonyk Offline
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Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK
Those two women were in the same mould as the women that SOE parachuted into France during WW2.Just get the job done without making a song and dance about it whilst displaying a mental toughness and tenacity that puts most men to shame.I have nothing but respect for the pair of them.

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#77364 - 28/01/13 08:52 AM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Ive just read Richard Lendons account of the race and I see that he was part of a small group that spent some time at Forest View.
Dave.

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#77365 - 28/01/13 12:54 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
joyce taylor Offline
Full Member

Registered: 31/01/07
Posts: 317
Loc: byrness village
Yes it was Richard Lendon and a guy called Paul there should have been a third but he completely ran out of steam 3k short of us and it was waiting with him until the rescue people arrived that made them late in arriving. A real shame for everyone who got so close with time to complete but were beaten by the extreme weather. Well done to you all.
_________________________
http://www.forestviewbyrness.co.uk
#1 place to stay in Byrness (tripadvisor)

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#77368 - 29/01/13 05:00 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Here it is, my Blog of the Spine race.
http://sloggersspineracejan2013.blogspot.co.uk/
Dave.

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#77370 - 29/01/13 08:57 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Alan F Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/02/10
Posts: 66
Loc: Reading
Superb write up,Dave.
I followed it on the Spine Race website and Facebook updates,but your blog just shows how incredibly tough that was.It makes us appreciate how tough navigation is in white-out conditions,even when,as yourself,you know the route well.
Thank God for those two refuge huts along that isolated Cheviot ridge!

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#77371 - 29/01/13 10:31 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tonyk Offline
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Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK
A great write up,makes thrilling reading.

In a way I feel bad about this as I was the one who suggested going the first three days without sleep.With hindsight it was a dangerous tactic for a race of this nature as there was nobody to constantly monitor you as in a track race.Hallucinating on Shunner at nightime in the middle of winter is just dangerous and could have had tragic consequences.In fact I would say its even more dangerous than the blizzard you faced,especially in those sub zero conditions.

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#77372 - 30/01/13 08:46 AM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Thanks guys.
I didn't set out to go without sleep for three days, in fact I was allowing for 6 hours per CP, in my race plan.
I am just hopeless at getting to sleep if there is a lot of noise going on, and just couldn't nod off. I didn't see the point in lying there awake, so I juust pushed on, intending to pitch up somewhere, but ended up pushing on. Big mistake!
Next time I am getting some customised ear pieces and will listen to some gentle music, to get me to nod off.
Dave.

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#77373 - 30/01/13 12:58 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tonyk Offline
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Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK
You have a point there,Dave.Without sleeping you averaged around 1.6 mph to Middleton.If you had averaged 2mph it would allow for three periods of five hours sleep each night.

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#77375 - 30/01/13 04:26 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Just shows how much you slow without realising it, especially as I averaged 2.8 mph from Edale to Colden (Hebden Bridge) CP1.
Dave.

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#77376 - 31/01/13 03:42 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
lightweightmick Offline
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Registered: 18/11/04
Posts: 1697
Loc: North Derbyshire UK
Dave, I followed your progress with interest via Facebook. What happened at the start (7:00 Unconfirmed) - did you miss registration?
_________________________
St Bees or Bust!
A Walk in the Park...s

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#77377 - 31/01/13 04:03 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Hi Mick,
Good to hear from you.
I got to CP1 and couldn't sleep, but I was there almost 2.5 hours, getting fed and sorting stuff out from my drop bag etc.
I left there at 0227hrs on Sunday 13th Jan.
Phil from the team said he would book me out, but must have got waylayed with others comings and goings, so probably realising later guessed at the time. Some of the CP exiting times of others at other CPs are also obviously wrong.
I made pacing cards fro the whole route but after CP1, they went by the board.
My average times between CPs as Tony says was under 2 mph, but my actual moving pace was far in excess of that. It was just all the stops along the way, which in summer on my own I don't make. However the conditions that existed made you just want to stop at every given opportunaity when there was, food etc to be had. Once stopped there was no great urgency to get going again, so a fair amount of lingering took place.
I also lost around 7 hours due to several simple nav errors and time spent relocating the route, between Hebden Bridge CP1. and Middleton CP3, approximately 90 miles.
Hope your keeping well.
Dave

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#77378 - 31/01/13 09:17 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
lightweightmick Offline
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Registered: 18/11/04
Posts: 1697
Loc: North Derbyshire UK
Right, got it - overall, would you say it was good value for money? With the entry, new gear and lost wages you must be out by around a grand? Looks to me it was a good thing you were where you were at the right time enroute to the hut. Nice one mate anyway. You cured yet or got more stuff planned?
_________________________
St Bees or Bust!
A Walk in the Park...s

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#77379 - 01/02/13 03:59 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: lightweightmick]
Slogger Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Originally Posted By: lightweightmick
Right, got it - overall, would you say it was good value for money? With the entry, new gear and lost wages you must be out by around a grand? Looks to me it was a good thing you were where you were at the right time enroute to the hut. Nice one mate anyway. You cured yet or got more stuff planned?


Yeah, excellent value for money, it's 450.. next year and Ive already entered and paid 50% deposit. General entries begin tommorrow I believe. They think as I do, that the event will be full for next year, with 75 places available for each challenge.
I certainly did spend a few bob on new gear and i would put the cost with the time off work etc at around 1,500..
I am just glad we hadn't gone beyond that first hut when the storm really struck, although I was still strong and not really tired, the yound guy with us was very tired and his feet in a mess, and the second hut is 10 mile further on, with several climbs.
I will probably have ago at something like a 4 day C2C on the full AW route, although I'm going to do part of the PW again in the summer, probably from Hawes to Tan Hill and work a route out back to Hawes to make a 45 mile loop.
Then I will do either the Southern Upland Way or Offas Dyke N-S.
I sent my Salomon Cosmic boots (worn during the Spine race)back again (I returned the last pair) and have received a full refund. I won't get another pair.
What about you? Are you still contemplating your C2C or got something else up your sleeve, apart from Ciderising?
Dave.

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#77380 - 01/02/13 05:34 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tonyk Offline
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Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK
When compared to a skiing holiday in the Alps it is good value for money and far more fun.A weeks skiing in the Alps would cost at least a grand and you still have the loss of earnings and kit to purchase.

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#77381 - 02/02/13 01:31 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tonyk Offline
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Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK
They seem to be signing up in droves,like lambs the slaughter!

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#77382 - 02/02/13 06:47 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: tonyk]
Slogger Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Originally Posted By: tonyk
They seem to be signing up in droves,like lambs the slaughter.


Yep, 40 places of the 75 limit already gone. remarkable when you consider it's a year off and 450.. a go.
That fee more or less equates to the Ironman triathlon, so relatively cheap as it's over 7 days and not the 1.
Dave.

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#77383 - 02/02/13 06:48 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
I think Forest View could be extra busy next January!!!
Dave.

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#77384 - 02/02/13 10:52 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tonyk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK
It was good of Joyce to open up at midnight and provide them with warm food.Not many establishments would do that.

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#77388 - 04/02/13 01:10 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tonyk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK
Just read your comments on their facebook page,Dave,ie,wishing these type of events had been around in your younger days,or at least twenty years ago.My feelings exactly.I ended up becoming an ultra road and track runner due to not being able to find many ultra events on the hills or cross country.Mind you I had always been a 10k and marathon club runner so the road was very familar to me.Not saying I regret it because I really enjoy road running but its still a shame that we didn't have races like this back then.

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#77390 - 04/02/13 06:42 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Les + Heidi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 327
Loc: hertfordshire
Have just finished reading the blog Dave, a great read as always.
I really enjoyed following the race as it was happening and then catching up on all that detail.

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#77394 - 04/02/13 09:30 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Les + Heidi]
Slogger Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Originally Posted By: Les + Heidi
Have just finished reading the blog Dave, a great read as always.
I really enjoyed following the race as it was happening and then catching up on all that detail.


Hi Les,
I thought it was just going to bea PW in winter with much less sleep. I had no idea it would turn out as it did and become such an emotional event the further it proceeded. People were absolutely heart broken when they had to call it a day, and that rubbed off on everyone else. Before the start of next years race, the brief, the evening before, is going to be some reunion.
Dave.

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#77397 - 05/02/13 08:19 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tonyk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK
This will make you smile,Dave.You are one of Helene Diamantides heroes!

Quote:
Anyone still running and fell racing over the age of 60- I now have some inkling of how hard it is to keep going and the effort required to fight the ravages of age!


Helene,together with Martin Stone,was the winner of the 1992 Dragons Back fell race which was considered to be the hardest race ever run in the UK.During the last day she carried Martin Stone's pack as well as her own.It was considered so hard that it wasn't repeated until 2012.In the 2012 race she finished in fourth place and was first woman home.Interview here.

http://www.dragonsbackrace.com/history/t...d-martin-stone/

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#77399 - 05/02/13 08:58 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tonyk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK

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#77400 - 06/02/13 03:27 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Thanks for that Tony.
In the 2012 race Joe Faulkner of the Spine Team, and one of the two who attempted to reach us in the refuge hut, during the storm, finished in 15th place.
Dave

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#77405 - 06/02/13 08:09 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tonyk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK
He did well just finishing that monster.Are you considering entering the next one?

Helene does make some good points in her interview,ie,the need of navigtion skills and British long distance fell races being unique in the skills required.She mentions that trail runners might well come unstuck in such events due to not having the complete skills package.

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#77406 - 06/02/13 08:50 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
I don't know about that. Much more running involved than the Spine, although it is a staged race. Of course how staged it becomes is dependant on how fast you are between checkpoints.
The difference is, and this was clear during the Spine Race and was obvious after researching the first event. As it is called an Ultra marathon it attracts mainly Ultra distance runners, hence the vast majority wear trail shoes.
Just as most climbers don't like to walk too far to their climbs, a lot of runners even fell runners are not experienced mountaineers. As in the Spine race, mountaineering skills were a massive benefit, some of those without were way outside of their comfort zone, and packed in early.
The Dragons back terrain obviously requires some mountaineering skill, but also the ability to cover big distances swiftly.
I think my ability to do that was some time ago.
Dave.

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#77408 - 06/02/13 09:17 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Les + Heidi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 327
Loc: hertfordshire
Originally Posted By: Slogger
Originally Posted By: Les + Heidi
Have just finished reading the blog Dave, a great read as always.
I really enjoyed following the race as it was happening and then catching up on all that detail.


Hi Les,
I thought it was just going to bea PW in winter with much less sleep. I had no idea it would turn out as it did and become such an emotional event the further it proceeded. People were absolutely heart broken when they had to call it a day, and that rubbed off on everyone else. Before the start of next years race, the brief, the evening before, is going to be some reunion.
Dave.


Its interesting to hear you talk about that team spirit and the raw emotion generated, that really comes across in your blog and it did all the way through all of the facebook coverage during the race. Its obviously a great trial, we're all fans of the PW but that race was addictive even for us lot sitting at home, its quite amazing that an event can generate that from afar. I can only imagine what it was like to be there and feel that first hand.

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#77411 - 06/02/13 09:43 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tonyk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK
I think one of the problems with the Spine was the entry criteria.As far as I am aware they were accepting entries from people with South Downs Way 100 and North Downs Way 100 to their credit.Completing either of these routes under 30 hours is a great achievement but not ideal preparation for something as rough as the Spine.Its like going from swimming in the Med in the summer to being thrown into the North Sea in winter.I note they had serious problems with hypothermia on the Thames Path 100 last year despite it being held in late March.In the end that had to scrub the event.It seems the runners were not used to dealing with that type of problem which is one that seasoned hill walkers just take as a normal occupational hazard and know how to deal with it.

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#77418 - 10/02/13 06:58 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Slogger Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
The system did work in the end. Those who had taken on too much, got a surprise and retired early on. As each leg went on more and more dropped out leaving 14 of us going beyond Byrness.
Annie and Russ, maybe Annabel too were the only ones inexperienced in what lay in wait for us, however the way Stewart teamed us up for safety over that final leg, paid off.
Speaking to Russ just last week, he did say that he didn't know how they would have gone on if it was just himself and Annie together. I have a feeling that they would have been prevented from continuing any further, or most likely would have been accompanied by a member of the Spine team for the Cheviots.
The team are currently away carrying out training in one of the Polar regions with people who are going on future expeditions and so have experience of people who require additional knowledge.
Their problem obviously is that this kind of race in winter is new to this country, and there are not that many Ultra Marathon runners about, with the full set of potentialy required skills that may be neccesary.
Having said that, everyone knew that they didn't have to reach a CP to withdraw, and many didn't, they were usually picked up at roadheads or villages.
I think there was only one that had to be put in his sleeping bag and bivvy to rewarm in between places, before being able to continue to the roadhead and the team vehicle.
We can't have weather that bad next year can we!?
Dave.
Dave.

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#77419 - 11/02/13 10:29 AM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tonyk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK
Here you go Dave,your next challenge!Should fit in nicely as its in July and the entry fee is a very reasonable 125.

http://www.tra-uk.org/thames-ring

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#77420 - 11/02/13 01:55 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: tonyk]
Slogger Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Originally Posted By: tonyk
Here you go Dave,your next challenge!Should fit in nicely as its in July and the entry fee is a very reasonable 125.
http://www.tra-uk.org/thames-ring


That looks interesting, but I probably couldn't afford the time.
I see you read Bell Cremins blog of the Spine. A very detailed account and is interesting to read another persons perspective of events.
Of course she told it as she saw it and that's perfectly ok, however some things were different from mine.
The part where Brian and herself caught up with me near Keld.
She assumed that I had left some small stile gates open, when in fact they were already open when I reached them and left them so, as in following the country code of 'leaving as you find'.
She says they found me asleep, I wasn't and had only been sat there a couple of minutes before they arrived.
She says my rucksack was open at the back, it's a top loader, but I had failed to close the clasp on the stretch outer back pocket, something I do have ahabit of forgetting.
She says my boot laces were undone, they weren't, there was just a lot of lace, doubled over and over, as I had tied them off at shoe level.
She says I freaked her out by running off at times, whereas I was merely trying to keep up with her in the lead. She was moving swiftly, far too fast for me and kept opening up a bit of a gap. With Brian behind, I kept running to catch her up. On the couple of occasions when she did pause I carried on at a fast run/walk knowing that they would soon catch me up.
I never did get a signal to call HQ as she said I had, that's why I had decided to go on to Tan Hill in the hope of getting one there and maybe pitch up for a few hours.
It just highlights how two accounts of the same event can differ in many ways.
Dave.

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#77423 - 11/02/13 08:36 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tonyk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK
Yes,I was a little surprised by her comments but that is how she must have *remembered* it.Sleep deprivation does have a habit of distorting both perception and memory.The stile gates on that section are always left open due to the volume of walkers.Even the locals leave them open.The fact that you reached CP3 safely would indicate that you were still thinking in a logical manner,albeit far more slowly than normaly.You must have lost a pole on that section as you had two on the Cam High road but in the photos at high Cup you only have one.I think the cold played a very big part in poor motor coordination as sleep deprivation over three days in more temperate weather dosen't usually cause those sort of problems.All I experienced was some hallucinations which are very common and constantly drifting in and out of sleep but my memory was clear and I was aware of where I was and what I was suppose to be doing.The Spine was a combination of sleep deprivation and the onset of hypothermia,a really horrible combination.

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#77431 - 12/02/13 04:41 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Slogger Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
My lega were fine and I was never cold at any time during the event, thanks to my Buffalo and Goretex combination, apart from my fingers at times.
The hallucinations defo due to sleep deprivation.
The incidents where I found myself waking up whilst still standing, on reflection, I am sure I have the answer to that.
Years ago when on overnight non stoppers, I developed a stratergy of dealing with those heavy eyelid times.
I would wait until on a fairly safe flat area and walk with my eyes shut for a count of between 10 and 20, then I would briefly open them to check it was still safe and repeat the action. I would do this for around 20 miutes, after which I would come out of that tiredness for the rest of the day.
During that first half of the Spine I am sure I was doing this, but on the 3rd night and 4th day being that extra tired, I must have actually momentarily fallen asleep, then awoken a couple of seconds later, whilst still standing.
I'll get it right next year if I can find a way of just getting to sleep. The thing is on reaching those first 2 CPs I didn't even feel tired enough for sleep and didn't see the point in hanging around, so carried on. I'll have to get some super-duper ear defenders or something.
Are things going as planned with yourself Tony?
Dave.

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#77434 - 12/02/13 08:36 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tonyk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK
Quote:
Are things going as planned with yourself Tony?


Still training.I am taking things a week at a time and will only be confident I can manage it if I can do two 45 milers back to back without any problem.Once I can do that it just a matter of waiting for a good slot weather wise and then going for it.

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#78199 - 23/02/13 12:20 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
lightweightmick Offline
Full Member

Registered: 18/11/04
Posts: 1697
Loc: North Derbyshire UK
Somehow I missed this post Dave... apologies!
Re the Spine - my day job is challenging enough in January! Not sure I'd want to invest that kind of money on what is basically a National trail allbeit organised and supported, probably go for some lighter gear instead maybe.
The cider seems to be taking up more time every year and I've still got a lot of racking/bottling to do this year yet and before you know it apples are back on the trees... even as a hobby still it's most time-consuming
It would be a shame not to put that new route to the test though wouldn't it..? I'm building up again this year - I got quite fit last year but only ended up doing a local Ultra (only a 30 miler at that)
Trying to get the wind back in the sails at least,
cheers
mick
_________________________
St Bees or Bust!
A Walk in the Park...s

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#78271 - 25/02/13 11:04 AM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tonyk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK
LWM wrote
Quote:
Not sure I'd want to invest that kind of money on what is basically a National trail allbeit organised and supported


This is one of the problems.Whatever name you want to use it is still the Pennine Way.A far better route would have been the Pennine Watershed,a 200 mile route that is more diffcult than the Pennine Way and runs from Edale to Midgeholme.A non-desript finishing point most certainly but that could have been rectified by having the finish at Thirlwall Castle which is a few miles further on.It would have been a route that stuck to all the high ground and the name Spine would have been appropriate.

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#78274 - 25/02/13 12:44 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: tonyk]
lightweightmick Offline
Full Member

Registered: 18/11/04
Posts: 1697
Loc: North Derbyshire UK
Unfortunately, also very sensitive to erosion Tony...

http://www.andrewbibby.com/misc/backbone.html http://www.andrewbibby.com/misc/backbone.html

Grough review

...must admit I'd be tempted to want to follow the original route (not in January though!) - which could result in disqualification on such an organised event.
_________________________
St Bees or Bust!
A Walk in the Park...s

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#78275 - 25/02/13 01:01 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: lightweightmick]
lightweightmick Offline
Full Member

Registered: 18/11/04
Posts: 1697
Loc: North Derbyshire UK
should have said 'ecologically sensitive'...
_________________________
St Bees or Bust!
A Walk in the Park...s

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#78330 - 26/02/13 11:29 AM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
tonyk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 16/02/04
Posts: 1033
Loc: UK
Quite true,Mick,especially Upper Teesdale.The main problem as the article says is getting permission to cross the Warcop firing range.I tried to get permission myself but the slot I was offered (mid-November!) wasn't really practical.Looking at the map it is possible to make a detour around the firng range but this would mean missing out Murton Fell and Mickle Fell.

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#79297 - 21/03/13 08:25 PM Re: The Spine Race? [Re: Slogger]
Slogger Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: West Lancs.
Ive been looking at the leader bnoard timings again of this years Spine race.
The results are quite an eye opener.
Obviously the faster guys got away and had a fair lead by Middleton (Halfway).
However from leaving Middleton CP3 to leaving Bellingham CP5, our group of 3, myself with Annie & Russ had the 4th fastest times out of the 16 left at that point.
Our tital time between those points was 51 hours.
The winner Eugeni's time was 49 hours.
Incredibly Mick Coopers time was 41 hours (the fastest)

Between Alston CP4 and Bellingham CP5 most of the times range netween 22 hours and 25 hours.
Richard Lendons was 26 hours.
Gary Morrison 30 hours.
Our trios time was 23 hours.
Incredibly again Mick Coopers was a staggering sub 13 hours.
But for the conditions, had we finished, we would have been within about 7 hours of Richard and Gary.
Got me thinking about what may have been had I not lost around 10 hours and more due to lack of sleep and nav errors.
Dave.

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